How martial arts are *described* in DGSD vs. how they're described in L/ROCH

[Ken Cheng]

One of the points of contention when comparing the martial arts levels of the DGSD Elites to the martial arts levels of the L/ROCH Greats is how Jin Yong actually *described* (i.e. the imagery and word choices he used) to discuss the same skills in different novels.

Bearing in mind that Jin Yong wrote DGSD a number of years after he had written LOCH and ROCH, and his writing style and sensiblities had evolved, the depiction of martial arts in DGSD is very different from their depiction in LOCH or ROCH. I believe it was former Wuxia Forum poster Kenny who once said that in LOCH and ROCH, the Hong Lung 18 Palms was described as a series of arm movements used by North Beggar Hung 7 Gung or Gwok Jing, while in DGSD, the same palm technique was described more like a power in Kiu Fung's hand (i.e. an energy force that shoots forth from his hand rather than a series of arm movements).

That being the case, the DGSD martial arts are always going to look much, much more powerful than their L/ROCH counterparts, but how much is simply attributable to the evolution of Jin Yong's writing style rather than a specific intent on the author's part to make the DGSD martial arts more powerful? If Jin Yong had completely rewritten LOCH and ROCH after having written DGSD (and I don't mean those minor revisions like we've seen over the years, but a wholesale rewrite), would the LOCH and ROCH martial arts have been depicted similarly to the DGSD martial arts?

[Ren Wo Xing]

The 'evolution of writing style' thing I don't buy.

Jinyong's last work, after all, was Lu Ding Ji, Duke of Mount Deer. By that argument, the martial arts in LDJ should be the most powerful of all, but that was hardly the case.

[PJ]

The 'evolution of writing style' thing I don't buy.

Jinyong's last work, after all, was Lu Ding Ji, Duke of Mount Deer. By that argument, the martial arts in LDJ should be the most powerful of all, but that was hardly the case.

I have found instances in DOMD where the martial arts seem superior to Condor Trilogy, more or less the same type of instances that make DGSD stand out.

[bobbywu]

One of the points of contention when comparing the martial arts levels of the DGSD Elites to the martial arts levels of the L/ROCH Greats is how Jin Yong actually *described* (i.e. the imagery and word choices he used) to discuss the same skills in different novels.

Bearing in mind that Jin Yong wrote DGSD a number of years after he had written LOCH and ROCH, and his writing style and sensiblities had evolved, the depiction of martial arts in DGSD is very different from their depiction in LOCH or ROCH. I believe it was former Wuxia Forum poster Kenny who once said that in LOCH and ROCH, the Hong Lung 18 Palms was described as a series of arm movements used by North Beggar Hung 7 Gung or Gwok Jing, while in DGSD, the same palm technique was described more like a power in Kiu Fung's hand (i.e. an energy force that shoots forth from his hand rather than a series of arm movements).

That being the case, the DGSD martial arts are always going to look much, much more powerful than their L/ROCH counterparts, but how much is simply attributable to the evolution of Jin Yong's writing style rather than a specific intent on the author's part to make the DGSD martial arts more powerful? If Jin Yong had completely rewritten LOCH and ROCH after having written DGSD (and I don't mean those minor revisions like we've seen over the years, but a wholesale rewrite), would the LOCH and ROCH martial arts have been depicted similarly to the DGSD martial arts?

The way I see it, if Jin Yong did not intend for DGSD martial arts to look more powerful, he would have either A) Made the ROCH and LOCH more powerful in subsequent revisions or B) made the DGSD folks look less powerful in subsequent revisions. But he for the most part kept the hyperbolic descriptions in DGSD intact, hence I think he wanted the characters to seem like "Demi Gods."

[Ken Cheng]

Jinyong's last work, after all, was Lu Ding Ji, Duke of Mount Deer. By that argument, the martial arts in LDJ should be the most powerful of all, but that was hardly the case.

The difference, however, is that DOMD occurs in a Qing Dynasty setting, which in the context of wuxia, almost necessarily means that the martial arts need to be dialed down a few levels from the martial arts feats of wuxia stories in a Sung Dynasty setting.

[Ken Cheng]

The way I see it, if Jin Yong did not intend for DGSD martial arts to look more powerful, he would have either A) Made the ROCH and LOCH more powerful in subsequent revisions or B) made the DGSD folks look less powerful in subsequent revisions.

It's difficult to tell if Jin Yong intended to make the DGSD fighters more powerful, or if it was just a consequence of how he chose to write pre-Qing Dynasty martial arts by the time he got around to DGSD. He really couldn't adjust the martial arts of L/ROCH too much in the revisions. The revisions he did make in Editions 2 and 3 came down to a few changed paragraphs or pages here and there. To make the full adjustment that would cause the L/ROCH Greats to look more on par with the DGSD Elites, he'd need to rewrite practically every fight scene involving a Great. That would be much more work than he had to put into the revisions he did make.

[tape]

It's difficult to tell if Jin Yong intended to make the DGSD fighters more powerful, or if it was just a consequence of how he chose to write pre-Qing Dynasty martial arts by the time he got around in DGSD. He really couldn't adjust the martial arts of L/ROCH too much in the revisions. The revisions he did make in Editions 2 and 3 came down to a few changed paragraphs or pages here and there. To make the full adjustment that would cause the L/ROCH Greats to look more on par with the DGSD Elites, he'd need to rewrite practically every fight scene involving a Great. That would be much more work than he had to put into the revisions he did make.

He could easily add in a few sentences here and there about their blows blasting across 50 feet or them crushing bronze with their hands. He doesn't have to change much at all if thats his intentions; the fights can stay the same but he can add a few isolated events.