More Condor Trilogy skepticism

[Athena]

Rats! I forgot about Zhiguang. Anyhow........
I am going to post several excerpts (untranslated) that might COULD be LDA. I, myself, must admit that these scenes are highly dubious, most likely they have been used before and even debunked. Most of you have already seen or read these examples. I have to admit, there is not a LDA act in LOCH and ROCH that resembles anything that Yinggu did in ROCH (or at least it has not been found).
Certain fights descriptions do not even provide a detailed enough picture whether there is a palm clash with physical contact or just palm energy exchange. I can go either way with certain fights, I could imagine a physical palm clash but I could also envision a palm energy clash. I just selected the one that kind of could be LDA, but honestly I, myself………..*sigh
By the way, I have not included the Golden Wheel Monk and South Emperor fight nor the Yinggu and Yang Guo “fight”.
Some might wonder why does Athena have so much time to do this. I would answer:” I love having a wedding planner.”

Example 1: 黃蓉格格一聲笑，三枚銀梭向蹲在地下的歐陽鋒頂門猛擲下去。郭靖惊叫：“使不得！”攔腰一把將她抱起，躍下 地來，雙足尚未著地，只听得黃藥師急叫：“鋒兄留情！”郭靖只感一股极大力量排山倒海般推至，忙將黃蓉在身 旁一放，急運勁力，雙手同使降龍十八掌中的“見龍在田”，平推出去，砰的一聲響，登時被歐陽鋒的蛤蟆功震得 倒退了七八步。他胸口气血翻涌，難過之极，只是生怕歐陽鋒這股凌厲無儔的掌力傷了黃蓉，硬生生的站定腳步， 深深吸一口气，待要再行抵擋歐陽鋒攻來的招術，只見洪七公与黃藥師已雙雙擋在面前。歐陽鋒長身直立，叫道： “慚愧，慚愧，一個收勢不及，沒傷到了姑娘么？”
　　黃蓉本已嚇得花容失色，听他這么說，強自笑道：“我爹爹在這里，你怎傷得了我？”
　　黃藥師甚是擔心，拉著她的手，悄聲問道：“身上覺得有甚么异樣？快呼吸几口。”黃蓉依言緩吸急吐，覺得 無甚不适，笑著搖了搖頭。黃藥師這才放心，斥道：“兩位伯伯在這里印證功夫，要你這丫頭來多手多腳？歐陽伯 伯的蛤蟆功非同小可，若不是他手下留情，你這條小命還在么？”原來歐陽鋒這蛤蟆功純系以靜制動，他全身涵勁 蓄勢，蘊力不吐，只要敵人一施攻擊，立時便有猛烈無比的勁道反擊出來，他正以全力与洪七公周旋，猶如一張弓 拉得滿滿地，張机待發，黃蓉貿然碰了上去，直是自行尋死。待得歐陽鋒得知向他遞招的竟是黃蓉，自己勁力早已 發出，不由得大吃一惊，心想這一下闖下了禍，這個如花似玉般的小姑娘活生生的要斃于自己掌下，耳听得黃藥師 叫道：“鋒兄留情！”急收掌力，哪里還來得及，突然間一股掌力与自己一抵，他乘勢急收，看清楚救了黃蓉的竟 是郭靖，心中對洪七公更是欽服：“老叫化子果然了得，連這個少年弟子也調教得如此功夫！” LOCH/chapter 18 edition 2 and 3

Example 2: 郭靖吃了一惊，叫道：“岳父！”待要上前勸阻，洪七公拉住他的手臂，低聲道：“別傻！”郭靖停步看時，只見 周伯通在地下滾來滾去，靈便之极，黃藥師手抓足踢，哪里碰得到他的身子？洪七公低聲道：“留神瞧他身法。” 郭靖見周伯通這一路功夫正便是真經上所說的“蛇行狸翻”之術，當下凝神觀看，看到精妙之處，情不自禁的叫了 聲：“好！”黃藥師愈益惱怒，拳鋒到處，猶如斧劈刀削一般，周伯通的衣袖袍角一塊塊的裂下，再斗片刻，他長 須長發也一叢叢的被黃藥師掌力震斷。周伯通雖未受傷，也知道再斗下去必然無幸，只要受了他一招半式，不死也 得重傷，眼見黃藥師左掌橫掃過來. LOCH/chapter 19 edition 2 and 3

Example 3: 郭靖飛身縱起，叫道：“跟我來！”一招“飛龍在天”，和身直扑，猛向裘千仞撞去。他知這時候生死間不容發， 若在敵船別處落足，裘千仞定然不待他站穩即行從旁襲擊，以他功力，自己必然禁受不起，現下迎面猛攻，逼他先 取守勢，便有間隙在敵船取得立足之地。裘千仞知他心意，半截竹篙一擺，在空中連刺數點，叫他拿不准刺來方向 ，虛虛實實，變幻不定。郭靖使一招密雲不雨， 雙掌交替連拍， 擊向裘千仞頭頂， 左臂格開篙頭，身子續向敵船落去。裘千仞一聲長嘯，竹篙脫手，并掌往郭靖當胸擊去，已踏實地，敵在半空，掌 力一交上了，非將他震入江中不可。LOCH/chapter 32 – only edition 3

Example 4: 郭靖正要答話，突然眼角瞥處，見一人悄沒聲的走上樓頭，一身青衣，神情瀟洒，正是桃花島主黃藥師。郭靖眼睛 一花，還道看錯了人，凝神定睛，卻不是黃藥師是誰？黃藥師見他在此，也是一怔，突覺勁風扑面，郭靖一招“亢 龍有悔”隔桌沖擊而來。這一掌他當真是使盡了平生之力，聲勢猛惡惊人。黃藥師身子微側，左手推出，將他掌勢 卸在一旁。只听得喀喇喇几聲響，郭靖收勢不住，身子穿過板壁，向樓下直墮而落。LOCH/chapter 34 edition 2 and 3

Example 5: 眼見梅超風這一下便要抓到丘處机頂心，突然左右兩股掌風扑到，卻是劉處玄与王處一同時發掌。梅超風右抓繼續 發勁，左掌橫揮，要擋住劉、王二人掌力。豈知這二人掌力同流，一陰一陽，相輔相成，力道竟是大得出奇，遠非 兩人內力相加之可比。梅超風在空中受這大力激蕩，登時向上彈起，右手急忙變抓為掌，力揮之下，身子向后翻出 ，落在門檻之上，不禁大惊失色，心想這兩人功夫如此高深，決非全真七子之輩，叫道：“是洪七公、段皇爺在此 么？”丘處机笑道：“咱們只是全真七子，有甚么洪七公、段皇爺了？”梅超風大惑不解：“譚老道非我之敵，怎 么他師兄弟中卻有這等高手？難道同門兄弟之間，高低強弱竟會這么懸殊？”郭靖在隔室旁觀，也是大出意料之外 ，心想劉、王二人功力再高，最多也是与梅超風在伯仲之間，雖然二人合力，也決不能輕輕一揮就將她彈了出去。 這等功夫，只有出諸周伯通、洪七公、黃藥師、歐陽鋒等人方始不奇，全真七子哪有如此本領？ LOCH/chapter 25 edition 2 and 3

Example 6: 高手比武，手上有無兵刃相差其實不多，洪七公將降龍十八掌使將開來，掌風掃到一丈開外，郭靖雖有鐵簫，又哪 能近身還擊？LOCH/chapter 40 edition 2 and 3

Example 7: 敵人見對方驟來高手，都是一惊，但自恃胜算在握，也不以為意，早有兩人扑過來喝問：“是誰？”郭靖毫不理會 ，呼呼兩聲，雙掌拍出。那兩人尚未近身，已被他掌力震得立足不住，騰騰兩下，背心撞上牆壁，口 噴鮮血。 ROCH/chapter 4 edition 2 and 3

[shortsight]

...
Some might wonder why does Athena have so much time to do this. I would answer:” I love having a wedding planner.”
...

Hmm, meaning you are getting married? Congratulations!
So, are you going to retire from wuxia posting soon?

[Dennis Chen]

Congratulations Athena.

[Whsie]

Hmm, meaning you are getting married? Congratulations!
So, are you going to retire from wuxia posting soon?

Oh..., that is what it meant. Congrats!

Oh yeah, it's also funny that you guys are talking about the ancient street fighter. That is hilarious.

[Whsie]

In this case, I don't think Guo Jing's positioning angle would have been a problem. If any circumstance prevented Guo Jing from using LDA, it would have to be insufficient time for the blast to reach Huodu. When Huodu first leaped up, he should have been above Guo Fu, so that would have been a good moment to blast him away. But if the blast reaches him after he has striked Guo Fu then it would be no good. And it's possible that rushing forward could be faster than LDA, so I could see that as a potential explanation.

Going back to my argument with other person first. The difference is between thinking between "acting dead" and "actually dead". GJ thought he was actually dead because Huo Du received the supposed KO. The plot argument was just mentioned, but not as a real argument. More like a reminder.

As for PJ's case. Good job, I never thought about the speed of the LDA. As shown in DSGS multiple times, some can run at the speed of LDA. Sweeper Monk with sophistication could keep his distance with an LDA while running. XF was able to run at the speed and keep up with the speed of an LDA. All of this suggests that LDA is not as fast as a blink in a eye movement which would allow for reaction time for Huo Du to do something quick.

[duguxiaojing]

s for PJ's case. Good job, I never thought about the speed of the LDA

That is a good point...wish i thought of it =p...when OYF fired a LDA at 30 percent at the QZ master, it moved much faster than the one he fired at HYS, which contained his life's cultivation of internal power. So there is proof that there are varying speeds of LDA....a heavy blast of LDA would proboally be quite slow(in comparison to a great)....


GRATZ ATHENA!!! +D

[PJ]

Hello Dennis. Would appreciate it if you could give me a reply regarding my question in post #45.

Athena: Congratulations

[Ken Cheng]

Not much to say on the topic in question, but just wanted to join in on the well wishes for Athena on her wedding next year.

[Athena]

Thanks everyone for your nice words and blessings.

Although, I would have liked that some people at least comment about the examples I posted.
I do realize that all of them are dubious and debatable even I am not sure about the distance, lethalness, etc.

[odbayarb2000]

Although I am new here. I really like wuxia. So I believe I can be a part of this family. I should respect my seniors. Congratulations big sister Athena.

[ChronoReverse]

On top of the Linked City translation PJ posted, I would like to hear the evidence to back up your assertion that the theory is 'patently implausible'.

Because it has to depend on the technique as well.

Sure, it makes sense that LDA range is dependent on Internal Energy. It doesn't make sense that's Internal Energy is the only factor.

Even within identical technique (i.e., GJ and XF's HL18P are not identical), it's clear from what Jin Yong describes and says that it's still not a linear process.


This is what I meant when I say it's implausible. As usual you're oversimplifying it to make an assertion.


In any case, this only shows that GJ might not be able to use a LDA in the same way XF could. And even then it's a might because perhaps even GJ wasn't so headstrong and foolish as to fire off the equivalent of a runaway freight train at someone in close quarters with someone important and could easily pull that person in front of said freight train. Or perhaps he really didn't think of it. GJ having no enough internal energy is an option of course (if we're only looking at this context). There's not enough to say.

And if you could catch up with the LDA, why bother using it in the first place since you're faster? It's good for increasing power if you had the technique for it, but that wasn't the scenario here.

[PJ]

Because it has to depend on the technique as well.

To some extent, but that is pretty minimal IMHFO.

Even within identical technique (i.e., GJ and XF's HL18P are not identical), it's clear from what Jin Yong describes and says that it's still not a linear process.

Can you provide some concrete examples?

This is what I meant when I say it's implausible. As usual you're oversimplifying it to make an assertion.

I'm just going by what Jin Yong wrote in A Deadly Secret. I look forward to reading your examples to prove your assertions.

And if you could catch up with the LDA, why bother using it in the first place since you're faster?

Even if running = LDA speed, LDA still has advantages. For example if you're trying to strike 2 enemies on opposite sides (one to your left and one to your right), it can be accomplished by launching 2 LDAs from each of your palm, whereas if you ran, you'd have to run to the first direction then turn back and travel 2x more distance, and by that time your enemy could have ambushed you.

But, I think most LDAs are faster than human legs. Murong Bo felt compelled to block Xiao Feng's palm when they were both running as fast as they could, so that implies Xiao Feng's LDA was faster than his running speed. However in this example, Guo Jing could NOT rescue daughter by rushing, so I just postulated, as a possibility, that he might not have been able to by LDA either.

[PJ]

Although, I would have liked that some people at least comment about the examples I posted.
I do realize that all of them are dubious and debatable even I am not sure about the distance, lethalness, etc.

I will write a few comments later

[kwekmh]

Congratulations, Athena. All the best to you.

[PJ]

Yeah those are the hacked machines but they were labelled soemthing like Rainbow Edition to make it sound official

I just remembered another characteristic: in those hacked SF games, you could actually switch characters in mid game by pressing the START button. You could also disappear off the screen by jumping higher. What fun!

And if you could catch up with the LDA, why bother using it in the first place since you're faster?

I just thought of another reason. If your opponent uses a weapon, if you're much better you can LDA him to death in one stance. But if you can't do LDA, you'd have to do more work to approach him physically while making sure your fist doesn't clash with his blade or whatever.

[PJ]

OK, I finally have some time to reply to Athena's examples.

Example 1: 黃蓉格格一聲笑，三枚銀梭向蹲在地下的歐陽鋒頂門猛擲下去。郭靖惊叫：“使不得！”攔腰一把將她抱起，躍下 地來，雙足尚未著地，只听得黃藥師急叫：“鋒兄留情！”郭靖只感一股极大力量排山倒海般推至，忙將黃蓉在身 旁一放，急運勁力，雙手同使降龍十八掌中的“見龍在田”，平推出去，砰的一聲響，登時被歐陽鋒的蛤蟆功震得 倒退了七八步。他胸口气血翻涌，難過之极，只是生怕歐陽鋒這股凌厲無儔的掌力傷了黃蓉，硬生生的站定腳步， 深深吸一口气，待要再行抵擋歐陽鋒攻來的招術，只見洪七公与黃藥師已雙雙擋在面前。歐陽鋒長身直立，叫道： “慚愧，慚愧，一個收勢不及，沒傷到了姑娘么？”
　　黃蓉本已嚇得花容失色，听他這么說，強自笑道：“我爹爹在這里，你怎傷得了我？”
　　黃藥師甚是擔心，拉著她的手，悄聲問道：“身上覺得有甚么异樣？快呼吸几口。”黃蓉依言緩吸急吐，覺得 無甚不适，笑著搖了搖頭。黃藥師這才放心，斥道：“兩位伯伯在這里印證功夫，要你這丫頭來多手多腳？歐陽伯 伯的蛤蟆功非同小可，若不是他手下留情，你這條小命還在么？”原來歐陽鋒這蛤蟆功純系以靜制動，他全身涵勁 蓄勢，蘊力不吐，只要敵人一施攻擊，立時便有猛烈無比的勁道反擊出來，他正以全力与洪七公周旋，猶如一張弓 拉得滿滿地，張机待發，黃蓉貿然碰了上去，直是自行尋死。待得歐陽鋒得知向他遞招的竟是黃蓉，自己勁力早已 發出，不由得大吃一惊，心想這一下闖下了禍，這個如花似玉般的小姑娘活生生的要斃于自己掌下，耳听得黃藥師 叫道：“鋒兄留情！”急收掌力，哪里還來得及，突然間一股掌力与自己一抵，他乘勢急收，看清楚救了黃蓉的竟 是郭靖，心中對洪七公更是欽服：“老叫化子果然了得，連這個少年弟子也調教得如此功夫！” LOCH/chapter 18 edition 2 and 3

Sounds like it could be LDA, but the distance is hard to gauge. Huang Rong was shooting pins at [lying on the ground] Ouyang Feng, but she could have been anywhere between 2 feet away to 10+ feet away. Originally Huang Rong and Guo Jing should have been about 10 feet away, since it wouldn't be safe to approach 2 fighting masters very closely, but then she went to attack Ouyang Feng, so she might have stepped closer. Also it is possible that Ouyang Feng moved closer to attack her, even though it wasn't mentioned.

Example 2: 郭靖吃了一惊，叫道：“岳父！”待要上前勸阻，洪七公拉住他的手臂，低聲道：“別傻！”郭靖停步看時，只見 周伯通在地下滾來滾去，靈便之极，黃藥師手抓足踢，哪里碰得到他的身子？洪七公低聲道：“留神瞧他身法。” 郭靖見周伯通這一路功夫正便是真經上所說的“蛇行狸翻”之術，當下凝神觀看，看到精妙之處，情不自禁的叫了 聲：“好！”黃藥師愈益惱怒，拳鋒到處，猶如斧劈刀削一般，周伯通的衣袖袍角一塊塊的裂下，再斗片刻，他長 須長發也一叢叢的被黃藥師掌力震斷。周伯通雖未受傷，也知道再斗下去必然無幸，只要受了他一招半式，不死也 得重傷，眼見黃藥師左掌橫掃過來. LOCH/chapter 19 edition 2 and 3

Seems like Huang Yaoshi was ripping Zhou's clothes to pieces with palm/fist wind. I think the distance couldn't have been much more than 5 feet, since Huang was firing at the ground beneath him.

Example 3: 郭靖飛身縱起，叫道：“跟我來！”一招“飛龍在天”，和身直扑，猛向裘千仞撞去。他知這時候生死間不容發， 若在敵船別處落足，裘千仞定然不待他站穩即行從旁襲擊，以他功力，自己必然禁受不起，現下迎面猛攻，逼他先 取守勢，便有間隙在敵船取得立足之地。裘千仞知他心意，半截竹篙一擺，在空中連刺數點，叫他拿不准刺來方向 ，虛虛實實，變幻不定。郭靖使一招密雲不雨， 雙掌交替連拍， 擊向裘千仞頭頂， 左臂格開篙頭，身子續向敵船落去。裘千仞一聲長嘯，竹篙脫手，并掌往郭靖當胸擊去，已踏實地，敵在半空，掌 力一交上了，非將他震入江中不可。LOCH/chapter 32 – only edition 3

This one I'm not sure about... it seems like Guo Jing made a leap towards Qiu, but
it wasn't said that any energy was felt from a distance. I don't think it's as impressive as SPW's instance of Fangzheng leaping up to strike Ren Woxing's head from behind. Ren actually felt a sharp pain on the head.

Example 4: 郭靖正要答話，突然眼角瞥處，見一人悄沒聲的走上樓頭，一身青衣，神情瀟洒，正是桃花島主黃藥師。郭靖眼睛 一花，還道看錯了人，凝神定睛，卻不是黃藥師是誰？黃藥師見他在此，也是一怔，突覺勁風扑面，郭靖一招“亢 龍有悔”隔桌沖擊而來。這一掌他當真是使盡了平生之力，聲勢猛惡惊人。黃藥師身子微側，左手推出，將他掌勢 卸在一旁。只听得喀喇喇几聲響，郭靖收勢不住，身子穿過板壁，向樓下直墮而落。LOCH/chapter 34 edition 2 and 3

Although the outcome was quite embarrassing (Guo Jing unable to stop and falling downstairs), I must admit the launch of XL18Z across the table, which was described to be extremely fierce, is quite impressive. The distance was probably circa 10 feet since it was across one or more tables.

Example 5: 眼見梅超風這一下便要抓到丘處机頂心，突然左右兩股掌風扑到，卻是劉處玄与王處一同時發掌。梅超風右抓繼續 發勁，左掌橫揮，要擋住劉、王二人掌力。豈知這二人掌力同流，一陰一陽，相輔相成，力道竟是大得出奇，遠非 兩人內力相加之可比。梅超風在空中受這大力激蕩，登時向上彈起，右手急忙變抓為掌，力揮之下，身子向后翻出 ，落在門檻之上，不禁大惊失色，心想這兩人功夫如此高深，決非全真七子之輩，叫道：“是洪七公、段皇爺在此 么？”丘處机笑道：“咱們只是全真七子，有甚么洪七公、段皇爺了？”梅超風大惑不解：“譚老道非我之敵，怎 么他師兄弟中卻有這等高手？難道同門兄弟之間，高低強弱竟會這么懸殊？”郭靖在隔室旁觀，也是大出意料之外 ，心想劉、王二人功力再高，最多也是与梅超風在伯仲之間，雖然二人合力，也決不能輕輕一揮就將她彈了出去。 這等功夫，只有出諸周伯通、洪七公、黃藥師、歐陽鋒等人方始不奇，全真七子哪有如此本領？ LOCH/chapter 25 edition 2 and 3

Impressive, but distance unknown.

Example 6: 高手比武，手上有無兵刃相差其實不多，洪七公將降龍十八掌使將開來，掌風掃到一丈開外，郭靖雖有鐵簫，又哪 能近身還擊？LOCH/chapter 40 edition 2 and 3

This one sounds more like his palm wind could reach outside 1 zhang, but whether it can still injure or kill at the range is not clear.

Example 7: 敵人見對方驟來高手，都是一惊，但自恃胜算在握，也不以為意，早有兩人扑過來喝問：“是誰？”郭靖毫不理會 ，呼呼兩聲，雙掌拍出。那兩人尚未近身，已被他掌力震得立足不住，騰騰兩下，背心撞上牆壁，口 噴鮮血。 ROCH/chapter 4 edition 2 and 3

Definitely no physical contact but unknown distance. Also from the description it's not clear whether the attackers would have suffered such injury if they hadn't bumped into the wall.

If I were to rank the impressiveness of the 7 feats performed in terms of distance, lethality and performability, I would rank them like this, starting with the most impressive:

1. #1

2. #4 - this one might be the best feat, but it was performed without any control, and the performer put himself in a great disadvantage

3. #2

4. #6

5. #7

6. #5

7. #3

[PJ]

Recently I've been pondering: both internal energy and speed are hard to measure. Dongfang Bubai and Xiao Longnu are generally considered 2 of the fastest people in JY wuxia, faster than the Greats... but there are cases demonstrated by the Greats that resemble the speed of XLN and DFBB. I was just reading LOCH Chapter 34 as part of my investigation for LDA, and found that Huang Yaoshi did this: 一言甫毕，突然回手掌，快似电闪，当真来无影、去无踪。郭靖正自琢磨他父女俩的对答，突然拍的一声，左颊热 辣辣的吃了一记耳光，待要伸手挡架，黄药师的手掌早已回了黄蓉的头上，轻轻抚摸她的秀发。

This feat resembles DFBB's motionless speed.
But a few minutes later: 两人以快打快，倏忽之间拆了五六招。双方互击不中，均各跃开，沈肩拔背，相向瞪视。只听郭靖大喊一声，攻将 上去，数招一过，又分别退开。

Now it seems Huang Yaoshi and Guo Jing are fighting at the same speed. If Huang Yaoshi has proven to be able to move much faster than Guo Jing, why doesn't he take advantage of speed all the time? I leave that for you to ponder.

SIMILARLY, there are traces of LDA in Condor Trilogy, such as the ones Athena posted, even though Jin Yong is very vague about it. Now, if people have been proven to be able to perform LDA, why don't they do it more often, or when they could seemingly take advantage of it? I leave that for you to ponder also.

In summary, it's unclear whether DFBB and XLN are truly faster than Greats and Elites, while it remains fuzzy whether the Elites have more internal energy than the Greats.

By the way I'm only bringing up the speed example because it is so similar to the LDA case: both have been demonstrated in Condor Trilogy but people don't seem to take advantage of them much.

[Whsie]

that is because I wouldn't be excited to see 2 fighters to just constantly launch LDA at each other. While I don't really mean it, but it does seem a bit "cowardish" (yes I just made that word up) to just stay from a safe distance and launch LDAs.
As for fast speed, I likewise wouldn't be excited to just see images flying all around with occasional clashes.
Think about it yourself, would you be excited to see (or imagine) fighters fighting like this?

PJ, you just have to accept that Jin Yong isn't as specific in his earlier novels and his imagery are weaker.

While I agree that most of Athena's case are somewhat dubious, but I do have to mention that the H7G one is most likely an LDA and it's likely harmful or deadly (don't forget that they were going at it for world #1) because GJ was constantly stuck OUT of the 10 feet range. If the palm wind was merely pushing or just semi weak, I don't see why GJ wouldn't risk going in. And second, the palm wind did take a toll on H7G's internal energy. If the palm wind was that weak or not deadly enough to cause a injury, I don't see any point for H7G to waste his energy as he was sending mutiple palm winds out.

A few other examples that are similar to Athena's are:

1. 施展師門所傳關外大力擒拿手
法，當胸抓來。郭靖左腿微屈，右臂內彎，右掌劃了個圓圈，呼的一聲，向外推去，正是初
學乍練的一招「亢龍有悔」。那大弟子聽到掌風勁銳，反抓回臂，要擋他這一掌，喀喇一
聲，手臂已斷，身子直飛出六七尺之外，暈了過去。郭靖萬料不到這一招竟有偌大威力，一
呆之下，拔腳又奔。 Chapter 12. Like most of the examples, the distance is unknown. This is a bit dubious as well.

2. 但儘管傻小子只會這麼一下，老怪物可也真奈何他不得。兩人相隔丈餘，一時互
相僵住。 Also Chapter 12.
Apparently GJ and Liang Zhiwen constantly had a distance of about 10 feet. All GJ was doing was just firing palm energies while Liang was just dodging. Kind of dubious, but Liang Zhiwen wouldn't have to dodge around if the palm energy can't reach him.

3. While this isn't an LDA, but it there is an implication behind it.
你見到了他書房中的鐵八卦麼？」郭靖道：「鐵八卦？那是甚麼？」黃蓉道：「那是用來練劈空掌的傢伙。爹爹教 過我這套掌法，我嫌氣悶，練不到一個月便擱下了，真想不到又會在這裡見到。」

黃蓉點頭一笑，揮掌向著燭台虛劈，嗤的一聲，燭火應手而滅。郭靖低讚一聲：「好掌法！」問道：「這就是劈空 掌麼？」黃蓉笑道：「我就只練到這樣，鬧著玩還可以，要打人可全無用處。」 If the likes of little HR can make an little small LDA after practicing only less than a month, it's unimaginable what HYS could do. HR at this time was probably at best only 5% of a LOCH Great. If HYS was there, he should logically not only fire way farther, but also much deadlier.

If we are to include ROCH, there is the Yideng/JLFW faceoff. YG/HYS faceoff. There is the Yinggu 10 feet attack.
And one of the less commonly known ones is this:
1. 何师我冷冷的道：“好说，好说。”将铁杖在台上一插，呼的一掌，便向耶律齐击去。...但掌力 分
布所及，几有一丈方圆。梁长老尚未退开，竟被他掌力在脸颊上一带，热辣辣的颇为疼痛，
忙跃在台侧。耶律齐不敢怠慢，左手一拨，右拳还了一招“深藏若虚”，用的仍是七十二路空明拳中
的招数。 This should definitely be an LDA that Huo Du sent out from 10 feet. And this is no shoving or whatever as it could really cause damage. Elder Liang just took the LDA's side wind and he already felt pain. Imagine the damage done if it was a critical hit. And besides, Huo Du has ill intentions which means that the attack should at least cause some type of internal injury if there was a hit.
2. 耶律齐的掌风已将对手全身罩住。郭靖和黄蓉凝目注视着何师我，知他处此
境地，若再不使出看家本领，仍用旁门杂派的武功抵挡，非吃大亏不可。耶律齐也已瞧出此
点，掌力渐渐加重，While #2 is more dubious, but the part suggests that they weren't all hand to hand as there could be a small distance between the 2. Of course, that distance is unknown.

[Ren Ying Ying]

just to add, the first two exampls are when GJ only had a few hours training of XL18Z...imagine the likes of him 40 yrs later

[Whsie]

there is also Yideng's case where he healed HR. While the LDA can't be too overpowering as it would harm HR, but at least it's sophisticated for the right power.
陰維脈點完，一燈大師徑不休息，直點陽維脈三十二穴，這一次是遙點，他身子遠離黃蓉一丈開外，倏忽之間，欺近身去點了她頸中的風池穴，一中即離，快捷無倫。
Though there was constant movement of close and out, but there were times where Yideng used a finger energy of 10 feet.