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Thread: More Condor Trilogy skepticism

  1. #81
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    that is because I wouldn't be excited to see 2 fighters to just constantly launch LDA at each other. While I don't really mean it, but it does seem a bit "cowardish" (yes I just made that word up) to just stay from a safe distance and launch LDAs.
    I don't mean using LDA for the entire duration of a fight. I meant using LDA for getting something done quickly when it would take more work to do physically.

    As for fast speed, I likewise wouldn't be excited to just see images flying all around with occasional clashes. Think about it yourself, would you be excited to see (or imagine) fighters fighting like this?
    It's not exactly like that. Huang Yaoshi proved to be much faster, so if he just attacked Guo Jing with ferocious speed, he would win very quickly. Guo Jing would not be able to match the speed. So it wouldn't be two people dashing around super fast for long, it would be one fighter dashing around the other one and soon it's over.

    I wouldn't mind that. It sounds better than images of say Zhang Wuji avoiding contacts with Heavenly Sword for 300+ consecutive stances! Or Linghu Chong avoiding contact with Feng Buping's blades forever.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  2. #82
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    And one of the less commonly known ones is this:
    1. 何师我冷冷的道:“好说,好说。”将铁杖在台上一插,呼的一掌,便向耶律齐击去。...但掌力 分
    布所及,几有一丈方圆。梁长老尚未退开,竟被他掌力在脸颊上一带,热辣辣的颇为疼痛,
    忙跃在台侧。耶律齐不敢怠慢,左手一拨,右拳还了一招“深藏若虚”,用的仍是七十二路空明拳中
    的招数。 This should definitely be an LDA that Huo Du sent out from 10 feet. And this is no shoving or whatever as it could really cause damage. Elder Liang just took the LDA's side wind and he already felt pain. Imagine the damage done if it was a critical hit. And besides, Huo Du has ill intentions which means that the attack should at least cause some type of internal injury if there was a hit.
    I think we've had a discussion about this before. First it was said the palm energy wasn't very strong. Second it was mentioned the palm energy was distributed throughout a diameter of 1 zhang. I don't know how Huodu managed to circulate the energy to the surrounding area, but what this means is that the energy directed at Elder Liang was about as powerful as the energy directed at Yelu Qi. And it only caused a pain on his face.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    I think we've had a discussion about this before. First it was said the palm energy wasn't very strong. Second it was mentioned the palm energy was distributed throughout a diameter of 1 zhang. I don't know how Huodu managed to circulate the energy to the surrounding area, but what this means is that the energy directed at Elder Liang was about as powerful as the energy directed at Yelu Qi. And it only caused a pain on his face.
    If a palm energy is distributed horizontally, there shouldn't be any reason why you can't distribute it vertically as vertical is more focused which should be easier. Next, even though the energy was over weaker, it should have still been strong enough to cause damage as YLQ immediately started moving. In addition, because this part was a bit confusing, I checked the translations done and the translators interpreted it as a vertical attack because a horizontal palm energy would have been pointless unless it's for defense or if the opponent is beside you. Plus, a spread palm energy would have been significantly weaker as the energy isn't focused. So..., there likely was some frontal attack.
    As for Elder Liang, I interpreted as the SIDE of the lda slashing by Elder's Liang's face, not a hit on the body. "竟被他掌力在脸颊上一带"

    Though I'm not 100% sure about the translation, but here is the part. "His attack did not seem to carry a lot of strength, but his fist created a gust of wind that Elder Liang – who was standing about two meters away, suddenly felt his face hot and hurting."
    Last edited by Whsie; 08-15-07 at 06:49 PM.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  4. #84
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    I just consider it as Huo Du being unable to control/focus/refine his internal energy as well when he delivers his palm attacks.
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    I just consider it as Huo Du being unable to control/focus/refine his internal energy as well when he delivers his palm attacks.
    I don't consider Huo Du that bad. Especially when we're considering that he was a legit match for YLQ.

    If we were looking at Pre LOCH Greats, I've seen 2 other possible LDA in the 3rd edition (I read it from Athena's long translation, but I don't have the actual text)

    "When Master glided near the windows, that Quanzhen expert blasted out with his left palm and Master ducked. The palm blast opened the window and I quickly moved aside."

    "He staggered back and he almost knelt over, suddenly his two fingers snapped out and there were two soft taps. The Quanzhen expert was hit on the legs by the Mighty Divine Snap and rolled over and could not get up anymore."
    Last edited by Whsie; 08-15-07 at 07:29 PM.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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    I was just reading over LOCH about 30 minutes ago until I stumbled upon what seems to be another LDA.

    LOCH Chapter 14: 梅超风对他这十五招掌法的脉络已大致摸清,知他掌法威力极大,不能近攻,当下在离他丈余之外奔来窜去,要累他力疲。施展这降龙十八最是耗神费力,时候久了,郭靖掌力所及,果然已不如先前之远

    During combat, Mei Chaofeng became aware of GJ's power and as a result decided to stay outside of 10+ feet to be safe and to wear GJ down. After a while, GJ's palm energy didn't travel as far.
    This section implies that beforehand, GJ's palm energy was traveling as far as 10 feet.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  7. #87
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie View Post
    I was just reading over LOCH about 30 minutes ago until I stumbled upon what seems to be another LDA.

    LOCH Chapter 14: 梅超风对他这十五招掌法的脉络已大致摸清,知他掌法威力极大,不能近攻,当下在离他丈余之外奔来窜去,要累他力疲。施展这降龙十八最是耗神费力,时候久了,郭靖掌力所及,果然已不如先前之远

    During combat, Mei Chaofeng became aware of GJ's power and as a result decided to stay outside of 10+ feet to be safe and to wear GJ down. After a while, GJ's palm energy didn't travel as far.
    This section implies that beforehand, GJ's palm energy was traveling as far as 10 feet.
    Yes, this example shows that LOCH Guo Jing's palm energy can travel to a distance of 10 feet. But LDA is more than just being able to channel internal energy to a certain distance. The other criterion is that you have to be able to injure someone from that distance. Now, Mei Chaofeng was trying to exhaust Guo Jing, so she probably stayed outside the maximum range, because the farther she stays the more work it would take for Guo Jing to channel his energy to that distance. But it doesn't really show that Guo Jing could injure someone from that distance.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Yes, this example shows that LOCH Guo Jing's palm energy can travel to a distance of 10 feet. But LDA is more than just being able to channel internal energy to a certain distance. The other criterion is that you have to be able to injure someone from that distance. Now, Mei Chaofeng was trying to exhaust Guo Jing, so she probably stayed outside the maximum range, because the farther she stays the more work it would take for Guo Jing to channel his energy to that distance. But it doesn't really show that Guo Jing could injure someone from that distance.
    I'm pretty sure it could injure MCF as there was the mention of 掌法威力极大,不能攻.

    The other thing that you have to consider is that is the noobish GJ who learned the "Dragon Subduing 18 Lacking 3 Palm" as HR calls it.
    Last edited by Whsie; 08-15-07 at 11:13 PM.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  9. #89
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie View Post
    If a palm energy is distributed horizontally, there shouldn't be any reason why you can't distribute it vertically as vertical is more focused which should be easier. Next, even though the energy was over weaker, it should have still been strong enough to cause damage as YLQ immediately started moving. In addition, because this part was a bit confusing, I checked the translations done and the translators interpreted it as a vertical attack because a horizontal palm energy would have been pointless unless it's for defense or if the opponent is beside you. Plus, a spread palm energy would have been significantly weaker as the energy isn't focused. So..., there likely was some frontal attack.
    As for Elder Liang, I interpreted as the SIDE of the lda slashing by Elder's Liang's face, not a hit on the body. "竟被他掌力在脸颊上一带"

    Though I'm not 100% sure about the translation, but here is the part. "His attack did not seem to carry a lot of strength, but his fist created a gust of wind that Elder Liang – who was standing about two meters away, suddenly felt his face hot and hurting."
    While this passage is indeed somewhat confusing, I'll give you the benefit of doubt and say that Elder Liang's face was scratched by a minor portion of the LDA, and that this LDA could potentially injure someone from a distance of 1 zhang.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie View Post
    I'm pretty sure it could injure MCF as there was the mention of 掌法威力极大,不能攻.

    The other thing that you have to consider is that is the noobish GJ who learned the "Dragon Subduing 18 Lacking 3 Palm" as HR calls it.
    不能近攻 means "Cannot go near." But near doesn't necessarily mean outside 1 zhang. It could have been safe to approach him within 5 feet but she chose to further exhaust him by staying away farther.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  11. #91
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Elder Liang – who was standing about two meters away, suddenly felt his face hot and hurting.
    Could you tell me where it said he was standing 2 meters away? And was it 2 meters away from Huodu?
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Could you tell me where it said he was standing 2 meters away? And was it 2 meters away from Huodu?
    That is why I said I wasn't 100% sure about the translation. But I take it as Elder Liang was standing beside YLQ, so Elder Liang felt the side force. I'm not sure, but I think it was a translation error. 1 zhang should be about 3.1 meters, not 2 meters.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    不能近攻 means "Cannot go near." But near doesn't necessarily mean outside 1 zhang. It could have been safe to approach him within 5 feet but she chose to further exhaust him by staying away farther.
    2 things I'll mention.
    1. Typically, you may be right. However, the added part of 时候久了,郭靖掌力所及,果然已不如先前之远 changes that. Since it said the palm energy didn't go as far out, that suggests that before the palm energy shortened, the palm energy was still a legit threat. Or else, there wouldn't have been the point to fly all around to waste GJ's energy. ONCE GJ's palm energy is shortened, MCF could attack from a closer and at that time safer range.
    2. Since it said 丈余, it's not limited to just 10 feet when it added . It could really actually be 12 feet-14 feet. Therefore, the actual threat could actually be 9 or 10 feet.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  14. #94
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie View Post
    I don't consider Huo Du that bad. Especially when we're considering that he was a legit match for YLQ.

    If we were looking at Pre LOCH Greats, I've seen 2 other possible LDA in the 3rd edition (I read it from Athena's long translation, but I don't have the actual text)

    "When Master glided near the windows, that Quanzhen expert blasted out with his left palm and Master ducked. The palm blast opened the window and I quickly moved aside."

    "He staggered back and he almost knelt over, suddenly his two fingers snapped out and there were two soft taps. The Quanzhen expert was hit on the legs by the Mighty Divine Snap and rolled over and could not get up anymore."
    Well, I meant in terms of being able to project long distance palm power/palm attacks, not in terms of general internal control/focus/finesse.
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie View Post
    2 things I'll mention.
    1. Typically, you may be right. However, the added part of 时候久了,郭靖掌力所及,果然已不如先前之远 changes that. Since it said the palm energy didn't go as far out, that suggests that before the palm energy shortened, the palm energy was still a legit threat. Or else, there wouldn't have been the point to fly all around to waste GJ's energy. ONCE GJ's palm energy is shortened, MCF could attack from a closer and at that time safer range.
    2. Since it said 丈余, it's not limited to just 10 feet when it added . It could really actually be 12 feet-14 feet. Therefore, the actual threat could actually be 9 or 10 feet.
    It would seem to make sense for the distance reachable by palm wind to be greater than the distance at which it can cause injury. Let's say that Guo Jing's palm wind can travel to 15 feet, but suppose it can't cause injure to Mei outside of 5 feet. After a long time, his palm wind can only reach 10 feet, and it can't cause injury outside of 3 feet. That's the kind of scenario I see going on in this passage.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    It would seem to make sense for the distance reachable by palm wind to be greater than the distance at which it can cause injury. Let's say that Guo Jing's palm wind can travel to 15 feet, but suppose it can't cause injure to Mei outside of 5 feet. After a long time, his palm wind can only reach 10 feet, and it can't cause injury outside of 3 feet. That's the kind of scenario I see going on in this passage.
    That's also what I'm seeing, but I don't think the difference for injury is that big. I'm seeing it as potentially getting as far as 13,14 feet, but only in injury zone if you're at about 9, 10 feet.
    Even if GJ can only stretch out to say 7,8 feet, it's actually not bad for someone who has about 3 years of QZ internal energy and Dragon Subduing 18 Lacking 3 Palm. GJ at this time was probably at best 15%-20% of a LOCH Great. Imagine what a LOCH Great can do.

    The reason I came up with 15%-20% was because GJ was clearly still below Oue Yang Ke and OYK claimed that he hasn't reached even 30% of his uncle (when OYK first met H7G). Since H7G = OYF, it's safe to say GJ is probably at best 1/5th of a Great.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    It would seem to make sense for the distance reachable by palm wind to be greater than the distance at which it can cause injury. Let's say that Guo Jing's palm wind can travel to 15 feet, but suppose it can't cause injure to Mei outside of 5 feet. After a long time, his palm wind can only reach 10 feet, and it can't cause injury outside of 3 feet. That's the kind of scenario I see going on in this passage.
    ...if MCF was standing 10 feet from GJ, doing absolutely nothing, are you so certain she wouldn't be hurt? in that case, why even bother standing outside of the 1 zhang range?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Ying Ying View Post
    ...if MCF was standing 10 feet from GJ, doing absolutely nothing, are you so certain she wouldn't be hurt? in that case, why even bother standing outside of the 1 zhang range?
    For the sake of answering your question, let's assume that what I mentioned above is true: that Guo Jing can reach 15 feet, but he can only injure Mei within 5 feet. In this scenario, if Mei Chaofeng stood 5 feet away from Guo Jing, he would just need to launch normal palms and he can see that is enough to cause harm. But if she constantly keeps outside 10 feet, then Guo Jing would need to increase his palm power in order to cause harm, even though no matter how hard he tries it won't be enough to cause harm but he thinks he needs to try harder (going with my assumption) -- this would go along with Mei Chaofeng's intention to drain Guo Jing's internal energy. If I were her I would try to stay farther than the damaging radius so that my opponent will hit harder and exhaust faster.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie View Post
    That's also what I'm seeing, but I don't think the difference for injury is that big. I'm seeing it as potentially getting as far as 13,14 feet, but only in injury zone if you're at about 9, 10 feet.
    Even if GJ can only stretch out to say 7,8 feet, it's actually not bad for someone who has about 3 years of QZ internal energy and Dragon Subduing 18 Lacking 3 Palm. GJ at this time was probably at best 15%-20% of a LOCH Great. Imagine what a LOCH Great can do.

    The reason I came up with 15%-20% was because GJ was clearly still below Oue Yang Ke and OYK claimed that he hasn't reached even 30% of his uncle (when OYK first met H7G). Since H7G = OYF, it's safe to say GJ is probably at best 1/5th of a Great.
    I think there should be a big difference between injury distance and maximum reachable distance. For example, let's take the description of Hong Qigong sending energies to 1+ zhang out. Now let's say he fired that palm blast in an empty field. What would be the maximum coverage to which the palm wind could be felt? Personally, I would say at least 2 zhang. Because IF he could kill within 1 zhang, then the force must be tremendous at 1 zhang. What happens to that force after 1 zhang, does it simply disappear soon? If someone stood 2 zhang away he may not be injured, but I imagine he should still feel it.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  20. #100
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie View Post
    it does seem a bit "cowardish"
    There's a real word for that: "cowardly."

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