Prominent Mongols whom Gwok Jing should have met, but didn't meet, during LOCH

[Ken Cheng]

Gwok Jing grew up among the elite society of the Mongol Empire. He was a close associate of Genghis Khan and the Khan's family, and rubbed shoulders with the Mongol Empire's greatest military leaders, including Jebe.

In light of this, it's really strange that Gwok Jing didn't meet or even know about certain prominent members of Mongol society until many years later in ROCH:

1. The Golden Wheel Monk was about twenty years older than Gwok Jing. In order to have become the Imperial Priest of the Mongol Empire by the time of ROCH, the Golden Wheel Monk must have already been acquiring some measure of fame and power in Mongolia by the end of LOCH. He is unlikely to have been an unknown nobody at the end of LOCH and become so prominent by ROCH. And yet, Gwok Jing had never heard of him until he showed up in ROCH.

2. Fok Do was a Mongolian prince, and he was just a few years younger than Gwok Jing himself (probably less than a decade younger). Gwok Jing was well-acquainted with Genghis Khan's inner circle, including Prince Tolui, Princess Hua Jeng, Prince Ogodei, Prince Chagahatai, and Prince Jochi. In light of this, why did Gwok Jing not even know about a Prince Fok Do?

3. Mongke Khan and Kublai Khan: both sons of Tolui, Gwok Jing's anda-brother. Considering that Mongke and Kublai were both older than Yeung Gor, these two Mongolian brothers must have been born already by LOCH (and were probably a few years old). How strange that Gwok Jing never met the sons of his anda brother back in the days when Gwok Jing was still in favor with the Mongols.

4. Yeh Lut Chor Choi: Yeh Lut Chai's father and a key minister in Genghis Khan's government (especially regarding Chinese affairs). Considering Gwok Jing's status (as a top-level commander of the Mongol war against the Jin) and Yeh Lut Chor Choi's position in the empire, it's hard to fathom that they had never met during the LOCH period (or ever).

[pannonian]

4. Yeh Lut Chor Choi: Yeh Lut Chai's father and a key minister in Genghis Khan's government (especially regarding Chinese affairs). Considering Gwok Jing's status (as a top-level commander of the Mongol war against the Jin) and Yeh Lut Chor Choi's position in the empire, it's hard to fathom that they had never met during the LOCH period (or ever).

From chapter 37, courtesy of Foxs.

Qiu Chuji saw Guo Jing had been through wind and snow, his skin was darker, but his body actually looked stronger and healthier; Qiu Chuji was delighted. Before Guo Jing arrived he had been discussing what he had seen and heard with the Great Khan. He said that he experienced the harshness of the weather first hand, so he composed several poems. Stroking his beard he started to recite: “For ten years the people had dreaded the calamity of war, among millions not even one or two could survive. The past year met a good fortune receiving merciful imperial order, this spring braving the cold making the journey. Taming the three-thousand ‘li’ of northern mountain range, roaming two-hundred eastern hill provinces. Exhausted and anxious, gasping for the last breath of life; consumed by the people’s suffering.”

An officer with understanding of Chinese literature called Yelu Chucai translated the poem into Mongolian. Genghis Khan listened; he nodded his head but did not say anything.

...

Genghis Khan was getting old, his strength waned, he wanted to learn the technique of immortality; he was very delighted to see Qiu Chuji arrive, thinking that very soon he would learn the technique to defy death and the method to prolong his life. Who would have thought that instead he was advised not to resort of military power and not to kill too much? This conversation did not suit his taste. Therefore, after talking a little bit more he turned to Guo Jing and said, “Go and accompany the Priest to take a rest.”

Guo Jing was present in this scene where Yelu Chucai translated for Qiu Chuji.

[Ren Ying Ying]

Mongke Khan and Kublai Khan were likely young kids back then. even if GJ met them, they were too young to be significant.

huo du wasn't a direct grandson of Genghis. qiu chuji even asked GJ whether he knew of a prince "huo du" and GJ denied it, saying he's most likely a distant relative. while GJ was in mongolia, huo du was still in his teens, likely being a nobody.

[FlamboyantLife]

Prince is a title of nobility. You can be Prince even if you're outside the direct lineage of the royal family.

There are probably dozens of princes during LOCH era, and considering mongol's empire size at that time, it is not hard for GJ to not know a handful of them.

[Candide]

Wasn't the GWM originally (as in, the 1st edition, when his character was created) from Tibet, not Mongolia? I think JY only changed him to a Mongol in the 3rd ed.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Wasn't the GWM originally (as in, the 1st edition, when his character was created) from Tibet, not Mongolia? I think JY only changed him to a Mongol in the 3rd ed.

Yup, IIRC people complained that all the villains kept coming from Tibet, so he changed it.

[odbayarb2000]

1. During the Time of Chinggis Khaan (1206 - 1227 ), there were no known Tibetan monks who worked for Mongols. Mongols were yet to reach Tibet, so I believe Mongols and Tibets relation was very shallow then. Ogedei Khaan (1229 - 1241) highly favored Muslims. Still, either Tibetans nor Tibetan Buddhism were well known by Mongols.

But Khubilai Khaan (1260-1294) was different. He raised in Northern China and was familiar with Chinese and other southern regions of Mongols. During his time there were quite number of monks from Tibetan who worked in important positions of imperial court. As Khubilai's power rose, Tibetan monks started to favored. Choosing GWM as a Tibetan was a very good choice, though JY changed it later.
But we can simply assume that when GJ was in contact with Mongols, GWM was in Tibet and was studying martial arts there. So their meeting chances were minor.

2. Huo Do was not a blood prince. He was adopted. He was aware of that if he doesn't poses great ability then standing against blood princes, grandsons of Chinggis khaan is unlikely possible. So he deliberately chose the path of martial artist, followed Golden Wheel Monk and somehow parted from Royal Family of Mongols.

Also he was very young when GJ was at Mongol. So they are not meeting is reasonable.

3. Monkh and Khubilai were born in 1208 and 1215 respectfully. When Chinggis Khaan's conquest took place, they were mere kids. So GJ didn't have much chances to hang round with them. Maybe they were at home deep into Mongolian steppes far from military camps.

4. Yelu Tsui Tsai played very important role in last years of Chinggis Khaan.
He helped him ruling/conquering sedentary nations. He was the one who deliberately invited Qiu Chuji again and again. I think Gj and Yelu Tsui Tsai's meeting was unavoidable. Maybe it just wasn't mentioned in the novels.

[KChill]

They also should have met the guy with the leopard skinned vest from 8 Diagram Pole Fighter (Gordon Liu)....

[Han Solo]

2. Huo Do was not a blood prince. He was adopted. He was aware of that if he doesn't poses great ability then standing against blood princes, grandsons of Chinggis khaan is unlikely possible. So he deliberately chose the path of martial artist, followed Golden Wheel Monk and somehow parted from Royal Family of Mongols.

Also he was very young when GJ was at Mongol. So they are not meeting is reasonable.

I'd read ROCH but never recalled reading that Huo Do was not a real blood prince. Can you pls post the relevant paragraph?

Han Solo

[JamesG]

I'd read ROCH but never recalled reading that Huo Do was not a real blood prince. Can you pls post the relevant paragraph?

Han Solo

odbayarb2000 is from Mongolia and is likely using information from The Secret History.

[odbayarb2000]

I'd read ROCH but never recalled reading that Huo Do was not a real blood prince. Can you pls post the relevant paragraph?

Han Solo

Sorry, I wrongly recalled. I found a pragraph that says Huo Do is Chinggis Khaan's close nephew. Chinggis Khaan had four brothers and one sister. Of course they would have many children.

[Ken Cheng]

Sorry, I wrongly recalled. I found a pragraph that says Huo Do is Chinggis Khaan's close nephew. Chinggis Khaan had four brothers and one sister. Of course they would have many children.

Somewhere, I've also heard that Fok Do was supposedly the son of Temujin's old anda-brother Jamorkha. I don't know if there's any truth to that, however.

[Athena]

- Huo Du is not the descendant of Genghis Khan but of the sworn brother of Genghis Khan who died in LOCH (Jamuqa). Anyway, his family always were insured of a wealthy life, but with no power for obvious reasons. Huo Du also wanted power and became the student of Jinlun, hoping that he would acquire power via his teacher. Not many people knew of his heritage, not even Kublai Kai was aware till he revealed it himself.

This was in the third edition changes thread under the ROCH section.

[Trien Chieu]

Somewhere, I've also heard that Fok Do was supposedly the son of Temujin's old anda-brother Jamorkha. I don't know if there's any truth to that, however.

Jamorkha shouldn't have any descendant. Wasn't Temujin massacre his entire family, loved ones, and even his entire clan to extinction?

[Ken Cheng]

Jamorkha shouldn't have any descendant. Wasn't Temujin massacre his entire family, loved ones, and even his entire clan to extinction?

He actually didn't. Although Jamorkha advised his anda-brother to do this, Temujin just couldn't bring himself to do it. Anda ties are very hard to break for Mongols, and Jamorkha and Temujin had been especially close.

[Trien Chieu]

He actually didn't. Although Jamorkha advised his anda-brother to do this, Temujin just couldn't bring himself to do it. Anda ties are very hard to break for Mongols, and Jamorkha and Temujin had been especially close.

Did you refer to history? or LOCH? According to history, Genghis Khan and the Mongolians were very ruthless. They destroyed everything on their way, millions upon millions of innocent people lost their lives as a result. According to wikipedia, the Mongolians were worse than the Nazi and Communists.

Was Genghis Khan castrated by Tangut princess? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan