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Thread: A step into the past - 寻秦记 - by Huang Yi

  1. #901
    Senior Member Jean's Avatar
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    to continue....

    ************************************************

    Book 4 Chap 3 – Debating Heroes

    When Xiang Shaolong arrived at Ji Yanran’s little house by the lake, there were already 10 odd elaborate horse carriages outside the door, the attendance a lot larger than this afternoon’s.

    After he gave his name to the guard, he saw one of the maids he met this morning coming out to welcome him and led him past the building which he met Ji Yanran this afternoon. She was carrying a lantern as she led the way and went through a small path in the woods. His eyes suddenly brightened, in large building with a lot of colorful lanterns hanging on it appeared in front, and he seems to hear people talking in it.

    Xiang Shaolong can’t help but ask the pretty maid, “Which other guests are here tonight?”

    The pretty maid replied nonchalantly, “The guests tonight are all specially invited by Miss, besides Master Han Fei, Zou Yan and Xiao Weimou whom Mister Xiang has seen today, there’s also Lord Longyang, Philosopher Xu Jie and General Bai Gui.”

    Xiang Shaolong sucked in his breath, this Ji Yanran is really something. Bai Gui is the person that Lady Pingyuan is remarrying, so naturally he’s someone great while Lord Longyang is a favorite of the King of Wei and yet they all came for the event. Obviously her position in Wei is extremely elevated as well. Although he doesn’t know who that Xu Jie is, he most be someone famous as well.

    He was perplexed as well, Lord Longyang should not be interested in women, so if he’s not here because of Ji Yanran’s beauty, what else can he be here for? Could it be to humiliate him to appease his anger?

    When it comes to learning, he won’t be able to catch up with these scholars even if he’s chasing them on a horse, so to ask him to speak is akin to embarrassing him on the spot. Therefore, he can’t help but feel uneasy.

    When he stepped into the hall, he saw the table laid out and all the others the maid talked about were already here, all sitting back on the soft rugs and sitting comfortably around the table.

    Another 2 pretty maids came forward and helped him remove his outer cloak and shoes. Luckily it is winter now and he’s wearing a thick cotton outfit so unless one reaches out to touch him, they won’t realize his equipment hidden in his clothes.

    Stoves were lit in the room, making it as warm as spring.

    Lord Longyang is still behaving ‘languidly’ and even proactively introduced him to the others.

    That Bai Gui is the oldest, at least 50 years old but very robust with gleaming eyes, giving others an impression that he is very smart. And he behaved haughtily towards Xiang Shaolong, only giving him a cold acknowledgement before turning towards Philosopher Xu Jie who looks like a typical scholar and spoke quietly to each other privately.

    Xiang Shaolong was seated between Hai Fei and Zou Yan, the seat beside Han Fei is still empty, obviously it’s Ji Yanran’s main seat, followed by Lord Longyang, Bai Gui, Xu Jie and Xiao Weimou.

    Xiang Shaolong saw that he need not sit opposite Xiao Weimou and face him so he felt a little more comfortable.

    Zou Yan behaved quite coldly towards Xiang Shaolong and only gave a brief greeting before talking to Xiao Weimou, who is from Qi like him, totally ignoring Xiang Shaolong.

    Instead it was Han Fei who took a liking to Xiang Shaolong because of his help this afternoon and although he is not a very good talker, it still gave Xiang Shaolong a little warmth in this ‘icy atmosphere’.

    Ji Yanran only appeared now, wearing a white brocade robe and absolutely glowing, immediately capturing the attention of everyone. Even that Lord Longyang was no exception, he looked dumbfounded and Xiao Weimou was almost drooling while Han Fei blushed. Although their reactions were all different, they were all attracted by her.

    Ji Yanran looked at everyone with a smile, her clear and languid eyes flitted around and even Xiang Shaolong felt as if his soul had been enchanted. Her body emitted a fragrance after her bath, giving rise to other thoughts.

    She had just sat down when she said with a smile, “Mister Xiang will have to be punished with a drink first, how can you leave before the end of the meeting this afternoon?”

    Everyone immediately followed her wishes and agreed.

    Naturally at this point in time there’ll be pretty maids pouring wine and serving delicious food.

    After Xiang Shaolong gladly exchanged a toast with her, Ji Yanran’s enchanting eyes flitted around the dining table and chatted cleverly, making everyone at the feast feel at home. However, she seems to be more interested in Han Fei, Zou Yan and Philosopher Xu Jie, talking and smiling to them more, and not paying much attention to the rivals Xiang Shaolong and Xiao Weimou.

    The truth is Xiang Shaolong has absolutely no clue about their conversation regarding poetries and song, and there’s no way he can interrupt to show off even if he wanted to.

    After they’ve eaten and drank, and with the urging of everyone, Ji Yanran ordered her flute to be brought out and played a tune for all.

    Xiang Shaolong doesn’t know the tune she played but he does know that her skills with the flute is flawless and at the peak and can’t help but be drawn into the music like the rest of them, totally intoxicated by the melody.

    After Ji Yanran finished her tune and everyone sincerely complimented her, she smiled and asked Xiao Weimou, “Mister Xiao please forgive Yanran for being rude, but I would like to boldly ask you a question.”

    Maybe Xiao Weimou has been affected by the atmosphere, or maybe he’s trying to get into Ji Yanran’s good books and fain her affection so his speech is a lot more refined and said gently, “As long as it’s Miss who asks it, I will be most glad to answer any question of yours.”

    Ji Yanran smiled enchantingly and said, “The difference between humans and beasts is whether they have a sense of shame, what does Mister think?”

    Everyone knows that the show is about to begin and stopped eating and drinking, quietly listening to their conversation.

    ************************************************** ***********

  2. #902

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    hohoho,.. in this part i would like to help weimou. because i found too many human that have no shame... qqqq

  3. #903
    Senior Member gqonmars2's Avatar
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    Thank you Jean. Great translation.

    ========

    I think I will need someone who is keeping track of all the characters to remind me soon. There are just so many characters, I have to go back a few translations and search for who they are...

    So, to that thought, I hope some of them gets killed off so I don't have to remember who they are.

    Also, I am wondering if .......
    click to show/hide spoilers
    like in the TVB series, will they count rings of a tree to tell how aged the tree is, or draw the old lady illusion?
    "Every man dies, but not every man really lives." -BH

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    Senior Member eliza bennet's Avatar
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    Thank you Jean!


    Things are really intense and I wonder when Yanran is going to fall for our hero.

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    About the tree rings stuff
    click to show/hide spoilers
    I only skimmed through the story as I disliked reading chinese but liked the story and kept wanting to find out what happened next. I don't remember any tree ring or old lady stuff in the story.

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    Hey Jean. Just got back from Vegas, and was very happy to be able to catch up on my reading. Thanks for keeping it going.

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    Thumbs up

    Jean,

    Thank you very much for translating this book. Please translate it any way you like. I like this story, sex and combat, and warfare. A lot of people keep thinking Martial Arts include on combat & weapons skills, BUT the truth is that it includes a lot of things: Combat Skills, Weaponry, Tactics, Warfare & Logistics. Just as depicted in Heaven Sword Dragon Saber, the hidden writings were combat skills and the art of soldiery/warfare.

    This story is fun because of the sex, the intrigues & plots, and how to defeat or escape the plots, politics & warfare and individual combat. It also includes human emotions, base desires & how to manipulate peope, and how a modern man & mindset will fare in the distant past.

    Keep it up, Jean. And thank you!!!

  8. #908
    Senior Member Jean's Avatar
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    to continue....

    ************************************************** ***********

    Before Xiang Shaolong came he thought that Ji Yanran had changed her mind about him but now that he saw she is treating him so coldly, he was about to find an excuse to slip back and steal the ‘Secret Manual’ so that Lady Ya and the 8 maids can make a copy. Therefore he was not really concentrating on their conversation.

    Obviously Xiao Weimou came well prepared and said with a smile, “I’m afraid Miss has misunderstood my meaning. I do not mean there’s no difference between man and beasts at all, it’s just that some innate nature, like the desire to live and procreate, is the same! That’s why there are many things worth learning from animals, for example animals will not lie, they’re more honest than us. Man should be true to their own nature before they can really enjoy life.” He continued with a cold snort towards Xiang Shaolong, “What insight does Brother Xiang has about my theory?”

    Xiang Shaolong was thinking about Chu Mohism’s Fu Du at that time so when he heard the words he was startled and said, “What? Oh! I don’t have any views on that.”

    Everyone, including Ji Yanran, were immediately stunned and revealed looks of contempt.

    Xiang Shaolong was laughing bitterly to himself that he’s not a debater so even if he has heard what he said, he won’t be able to argue well. Luckily he has decided not to woo Ji Yanran, so it’s no big deal if he loses favor with her or not.

    Philosopher Xu Jie looked at Xiang Shaolong scornfully before saying, “There’s a big problem with Mister Xiao’s words. The difference between man and beasts lies exactly in their innate nature. Man are kind by nature that’s why they show kindness to others; beasts, in order to fill their stomachs, have no such compassion and will willfully kill and eat other animals, sometimes even their own kinds are not let off. If man were to be so bad as to learn from beasts, won’t the world be thrown into chaos?”

    Xiao Weimou is an unrefined man and now that this scholar in Confucianism is butting into his theory, he felt a loss of face and asked coldly, “Will man not kill other animals? What is Philosopher Xu eating now then?”

    Xu Jie laughed, “This is exactly the difference between those bloodthirsty beasts and us. We only eat domesticated animals, will beasts know how to do this?”

    Xiao Weimou is obviously not his match and for a moment was dumbfounded.

    Xu Jie won in his first attack and was filled with pride in front of Ji Yanran, so he turned his attack towards Han Fei, “I have read Master Han’s great works as well and the theories are interesting. A pity that you committed the same mistake as your Teacher Xun Kuang*, which is to think that men are evil by nature, that’s why they do not know the great meaning of changing the people with benevolent policies. They use punishments to rule the country and bully the people. With Master’s abilities, to think that you were actually misled into following the wrong path, it’s really a pity.”

    *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xun_Zi

    Hai Fei was stunned for a moment as he did not expect Xu Jie to be so rude as to criticize him so disrespectfully. He is furious and could think of the retorts to make but the more angry he is, the worse is his stutter and he was unable to speak at all.

    Lord Longyang, Bai Gui and Zou Yan all have an icy smile on their faces, ‘happily’ watching him being humiliated.

    Ji Yanran raised her delicate brows and although she felt bad for Han Fei, she was impatient about his inability to speak as well.

    Xiang Shaolong, as an outsider, suddenly understood the meaning behind Ji Yanran’s hosting of this dinner tonight; which is to find a good way to govern a country. That’s why she looked at Han Fei in a different light and also invited the important people in Wei so that they can accept new theories and ideals.

    Xu Jie saw that Han Fei was unable to defend himself at all and became even more proud and insolent, saying “As for you who denied the methods of the previous Kings, it shows that you are forgetting your roots. It’s just like building a house, we must fist have a good foundation. Without a foundation, the house will not be able to withstand the weather, and this foundation is the models left behind by our learned ancestors.”

    These words are targeting at Han Fei’s theory that there is no such thing as unchanging policies in governing a country. Han Fei feels that protecting the old ways is not proactive at all, so one should not follow old ways blindly but act appropriately according to different situations at different times. Such thinking is of course more advanced than those Confucians who advocates protecting the old ways, but a pity Han Fai is not eloquent enough to say it out.

    Xiang Shaolong saw that Han Fei was so furious his vein was almost bursting. He couldn’t bear the sight and blurted out, “Nonsense!”

    He’d just spoken out when he realized he’s in trouble. Indeed everyone’s attention turned towards him, and Xu Jie looked at him impertinently and said with a cold laugh, “It turns out that besides leading soldiers to war, Commander Xiang has some insight about governing a country as well. I am willing to listen to your lofty ideals.”

    Xiang Shaolong can feel Ji Yanran’s pretty eyes staring at him, and thought to himself how can he possibly lose face in front of this beauty, so he forged ahead, “Time moves forward, for example in the past wars were fought mainly with war carriages but now it’s fought with a mixture of steeds, foot soldiers and carriages. So obviously blindly relying on old ways will not work out.”

    Ji Yanran sighed disappointedly, “Mister Xiang seems to be a little unclear about Philosopher Xu’s point. What he is referring to is principles, not methods. It’s just like a war is a still war, just different ways of fighting it.”

    Lord Longyang smiled coquettishly, “Brother Xiang, your swordplay may be excellent but it seems that you have not studied a lot. Now we’re debating with Master Han the difference between governing by ‘virtue’ and by ‘legalism’!”

    Xu Jie said loudly, “Governing by virtue, you will be like the North Star, staying in its place while other stars move around you.” He paused and recited again, “People who are governed legalistically and controlled by punishment will avoid crime but have no sense of shame. People who are governed through virtue and controlled through propriety will have a sense of shame and correct themselves.”

    These are famous Confucianism sayings, meaning that the way to govern a country is to use virtue as a foundation so that the people can be educated and the country peaceful. It has a totally different basis from legalism.

    Xiang Shaolong was not interested and felt that it’s better he find an opportunity to slip away soon. All this talk about governing with virtues, he’s not even clear about the theories behind it. It’s better that he leave early to avoid embarrassment to himself so he stood up and offered his farewells.

    Everyone was shocked. They did not expect that the debate has not even properly started and this person is already running away.

    Ji Yanran looked at him unhappily, “If Mister Xiang is going to slip away after just saying a few words like you did this afternoon, Yanran will be very unhappy.”

    ************************************************** ******

    So... will he go or will he stay?

  9. #909
    Senior Member tweety365's Avatar
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    Not just XSL, I'm also confused as to the topic at hand. What the heck are they trying to debate? It seems to me that the topic is shifting around. Plus, there are just too many characters present. I'm kinda lost with this philosophical debate. If I were XSL, I'd truthfully and happily admit to my limited knowledge and retreat .

    But I hope XSL stays and gives more of his BS answers LOL.

  10. #910
    Junior Member Namdynamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tweety365 View Post
    Not just XSL, I'm also confused as to the topic at hand. What the heck are they trying to debate? It seems to me that the topic is shifting around. Plus, there are just too many characters present. I'm kinda lost with this philosophical debate. If I were XSL, I'd truthfully and happily admit to my limited knowledge and retreat

    But I hope XSL stays and gives more of his BS answers LOL.
    Heheh, this isn't the kiddie TVB version where the debates consist of drawing old lady's face and counting tree rings, this is serious stuff.

    Anyway, there are 2 topics at hand that they are debating. The first one is about the difference between man and beast. The second one is about the difference ways to rule a nation. One group (most of the people there) thinks that the present way to govern a nation (to use virtue and benevolence-in other words, the guys higher up is always the one making decision in how to apply punishment, and the king at the top of the ladder, can rule how he pleases) is the best. The other group (Han Fei and XSL) thinks that the present way isn't good enough and there needs to be a change, and that the best way to govern a nation is by a set of law (or in Jean's translated word-legalistically).

    Looks like the Talented Lady Ji is very dissappointed with XSL at the moment. I mean the guy has a 2000 years of knowledge ahead of every one else there. I hope he can turn it around and not leave with his tail between his legs.

    Is this going to be the first time he failed? Is he really a quitter? Is he all brawn and no brain? (that's a real turn off to someone with all-around talent like lady Ji)

    We are awaiting for your next installment, thank you Jean.
    Last edited by Namdynamo; 04-17-08 at 01:15 AM.

  11. #911
    Senior Member tweety365's Avatar
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    Thanks for the clarification, Namdynamo. Sheesh, all this roundabout talk got me so confused. They should just straight out say what they are arguing about. Going offtopic does not help .

    Topic 1 - Man vs Beast
    LOL... I'm still not too sure what's the main issue here. What are they really comparing? Intelligence, nature, and/or behavior?

    Topic 2 - Ways to govern a country
    I agree that with 2000+ years of knowledge, XSL should get some ideas in that are credit worthy. But since the others are such eloquent speakers, it might be heard. I've been in a speech class and it's quite tough to debate right on the spot. You don't have that much time to think.

  12. #912
    Senior Member Jean's Avatar
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    these theories are a bit hard to understand if you're reading for the first time, that's why sometimes I added in external links for those who are more interested in finding out about the background of the people/ theories.

    to quote from wikipedia:

    "Han Fei's philosophy, called Legalism, centered on the ruler. In his philosophy, the ruler firmly controls the state with the help of three concepts: his position of power (勢, Shi); certain techniques (術, Shu), and laws (法, Fa). Legalism assumes that everyone acts according to one principle: avoiding punishment while simultaneously trying to achieve gains. Thus, the law must severely punish any unwanted action, while at the same time reward those who follow it."

    His teacher Xun Zi believed man is innately bad or corrupt, counter to Mencius, and that ethical norms had been invented to rectify mankind.

    Whereas the norm for governance at that time is based on Confucianism:

    "A key Confucian concept is that in order to govern others one must first govern oneself. When developed sufficiently, the king's personal virtue spreads beneficent influence throughout the kingdom."

  13. #913
    Senior Member rati4u's Avatar
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    so to woo a beauty, one should some times also have scholorly skills......sigh! our hero doesnt have this...

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    Talking

    Who cares? Bet they don't know who will win the first 3 American Idol's like he does.....

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    Ji Yanran looked at him unhappily, “If Mister Xiang is going to slip away after just saying a few words like you did this afternoon, Yanran will be very unhappy.”
    I want to slap that Yanran a feel times right about now... but I have been working day and night the past 4 days.. so, my anger is getting ahead of me. And if she is that hot, I will slap her bootie too.


    Thanks Jean. Great Work. Please keep it coming.
    "Every man dies, but not every man really lives." -BH

  16. #916
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    Thanks for the clarification, Jean. I say XSL has better things to do (ie finding a safe way to get the hell out of Wei) than sit around debating with these people. Also, philosophy isn't his forte. So far, I'm not having a very good impression of this Lady Ji. Sounds too full of herself, but then again, some of my fav characters are arrogant. Will have to wait and see how the story unfolds to have a better opinion of her.

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    Thanks Jean.

    I'm sure Ms. Ji will improve over time.
    Too many people seem to like her...

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    Don't worry, I am sure all of you will love Ji, just give them some time.

  19. #919
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    I think Lady Ji did very intelligent thing. She knows very well that all the men just want to come watch her play the flute, but how else can a female of that age gather the best minds of the country to debate about politics and figure out a way to permanently end wars.

    She can't come off too nazi feminist, so she has to flirt with the guys; lull them with music and wine, then ask the hard questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Namdynamo View Post
    Heheh, this isn't the kiddie TVB version where the debates consist of drawing old lady's face and counting tree rings, this is serious stuff.
    I agree, that sounds really lame.

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