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Thread: Text quotes from LOCH, ROCH, and HSDS *showing* contrasts between 9 Yum/9 Yeung?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Text quotes from LOCH, ROCH, and HSDS *showing* contrasts between 9 Yum/9 Yeung?

    Much is made about the 9 Yum Jen Ging and the 9 Yeung Jen Ging operating along opposing underlying principles, but were these contrasts actually shown in LOCH, ROCH, and HSDS? By that, I don't mean what the characters or even the narrator Jin Yong says about the two manuals, but the contrasts in their actual texts. In LOCH, we heard/saw a bit of the 9 Yum Jen Ging's text when Gwok Jing competed against Au Yeung Hak on Peach Blossom Island for Wong Yung hand in marriage (and in other parts of the story as well). In HSDS, we heard/saw the Shaolin monk Gok Yeun recite the text of the 9 Yeung Jen Ging to his disciple, Cheung Gwun Bo (later Cheung 3 Fung) and Gwok Seung shortly before he died. Is there anything in the excerpts of these two manuals that confirm their opposing natures?

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    it wasn't like the writer of 9yang was concerned with opposing 9yin, he felt the 80% or so of 9yin he read was leaning towards yin and created a more balanced(according to his view) skill. so assuming that half of the 80% of 9yin was yin while the other half was balanced, then 9yang and 9yin should have about 40% of theories in common. the 20%sanskrit portion should be balanced but since the buddhist monk did not read it, it could be assumed it was different from yang, through when yideng translated it for GJ and HR, he said in the end, buddhist and taoist martial arts are not diferent from each other and contain the same end goal. so this portiion may be similar to 9yang as well. so maybe only 40% of 9yin actually may differ from 9yang.
    9yin was supposed to hold all the martial arts available in china at it's creation and it may have included inner power cultivation techniques as well. through because HS studied taoist theories only, he may not have had shaolin buddhist cultivation theories included in 9yin. the buddhist monk who created 9yang had great inner power, possibly from studying shaolin inner power, and he may have combined 9yin inner power cultivation with shaolin inner power cultivation.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if any of our experts here can glean any clear contrasts between what we heard Gwok Jing, Au Yeung Hak, and others recite of the 9 Yum Jen Ging in LOCH and what we heard Gok Yeun and others recite of the 9 Yeung Jen Ging in HSDS.

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    Hello,
    This is my first time posting but I have been reading this forum a long time. I could not help myself but to question the following statement!

    "the 20%sanskrit portion should be balanced but since the buddhist monk did not read it,"

    Is this a statement from the Novel?

    I find it hard to believed that the person who create 9 yang who is a tao/budddist scholar/monk did not understand sanskirt or read them!

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    well, the sanskrit portion was sort of in code, it was phonetically in sanskrit but written in chinese. so the monk should be able to read it but may not have understood sanskrit. ZSF when he spoke about the 9yang inside the lanka sutra, said his teacher deduced because of the deep and sophisticated use of chinese, the writer could not be damo who could not have had such a deep mastery of chinese. likewise, maybe the monk did not speak sanskrit. the guy was a bit weird, he was a monk but he drank wine and had a deep inner power level but did not know martial arts. then again, i read in the forums that he could not read the sanskrit part, maybe he could. anyone have a facts on this to bring up.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Main difference as contemplated by Guo Xiang in HSDS, while she was listening to Jueyuan reading it out for the last time:

    - 9 Yin: attack first to take control of the fight and opponent
    - 9 Yang: let the opponent make the first move, do not let your state affect by it, control your own frame and you'll control the fight.

    ZWJ always moved after his opponents during his HSDS fights. An example is his fight against Kong Xiang (Battle of Brightness Peak - translation available on wuxiapedia). Wuji used the same Dragon Claw moves but always was one fraction of a second behind Kong Xiang and nulified the monk's moves as well as technically defeated him in every single move.

    The first time Wuji truly used this principle was when he took the last and third palm from Miejue. In this case he even let her hit him, while he ignored her power and palm technique but concentrated on his 9 Yang power instead. After that, I don't think I can recall Wuji ever attack first.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

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    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    It appears the whole HSDS book was about being passive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyss of the sword View Post
    ... (1) so the monk should be able to read it but may not have understood sanskrit.
    ....(2) maybe the monk did not speak sanskrit. the guy was a bit weird, he was a monk.
    ...(3) i read in the forums that he could not read the sanskrit part, maybe he could. anyone have a facts on this to bring up.
    hi
    (1) sounds unbelievable
    if he could create 9 yang from 9 ying. From what I read of the translations, he seems to be a very intelligent guy.
    (2) kind of strange
    if he was a scholar who become a monk.

    (3) This, i believe is made up by people who tried to justify the notion that 9 ying is indeed balance or they are fans of 9 ying.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    Main difference as contemplated by Guo Xiang in HSDS, while she was listening to Jueyuan reading it out for the last time:

    - 9 Yin: attack first to take control of the fight and opponent
    - 9 Yang: let the opponent make the first move, do not let your state affect by it, control your own frame and you'll control the fight.

    ZWJ always moved after his opponents during his HSDS fights. An example is his fight against Kong Xiang (Battle of Brightness Peak - translation available on wuxiapedia). Wuji used the same Dragon Claw moves but always was one fraction of a second behind Kong Xiang and nulified the monk's moves as well as technically defeated him in every single move.
    Meh, it would seem they're both inferior to the flexible principle of "just use whichever approach that works right now."

    Like for Xiao Feng, he has used both approaches. When he countered Xuannan's Taizu Changquan, he always let Xuannan attack first. When he attacked Ding Chunqiu however, he was the initiator -- for that scene, it would be quite silly for Xiao Feng to really want to attack Ding, but his fighting philosophy doesn't allow him to attack first, so instead of firing the triple-wave LDA, he ask Ding Chunqiu to attack first so he can follow up!

    Quote Originally Posted by yittz
    It appears the whole HSDS book was about being passive.
    True Dat.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Meh, it would seem they're both inferior to the flexible principle of "just use whichever approach that works right now."
    I think the key is to use the approach that fits the fighter's personality. Some can do both, others should stick with one.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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