Why was resigning as Ming Cult Leader such an agonizing decision for Cheung Mo Gei?

[Ken Cheng]

This probably goes to the heart of why Cheung Mo Gei is described by many as "wishy washy," but I wonder why at the end of HSDS, he was so agonized about the decision to resign as Ming Cult Leader to be with Chiu Mun. Shouldn't this decision have been easy?

1. He already fully knew what Chiu Mun had sacrificed for him, and what he owed her, and knew he wouldn't be able to live with himself if he turned his back on her at that point after all that had happened.

2. He was never that crazy about being the leader of the Ming Cult anyway. He had originally agreed to become the leader only to save lives, and that job was done. Why was he reluctant to give up a title he had never really wanted in the first place and had never been comfortable holding?

3. His friendship with his Ming Cult brothers was an important consideration, but those guys loved and respected him anyway whether he was Cult Leader or not. That wasn't going to change if he vacated the leader position. They'd still hold him in high esteem.

4. Ambition to overthrow the Mongols and spread justice throughout wulin? Yeah, it'd be more convenient to do this from the position of Ming Cult Leader, but given Cheung Mo Gei's great martial art skills, the respect he commanded throughout wulin, and his likely position as third generation heir of Mo Dong Sect, he didn't absolutely need to be Ming Cult Leader to continue doing this.

So what was so hard about the decision that kept him tossing and turning in bed for days?

[Ian Liew]

3. His friendship with his Ming Cult brothers was an important consideration, but those guys loved and respected anyway whether he was Cult Leader or not. That wasn't going to change if he vacated the leader position. They'd still hold him in high esteem.

Perhaps he thought that vacating the post in the prime of his powers for the sake of a Mongolian girl would betray the trust his friends had placed in him? In the end, of course, even the Ming members (at least the leaders) would have appreciated Zhao Min's help in bringing them through so much, but on record it looked like a very selfish thing to do. For your personal romantic obligations you turn your back on a whole sect.. a whole cause, even. Nobody held it against him in the end, and some like Zhu Yuanzhang probably even delighted in the opportunity, but it's just like Wuji to worry about whether everyone was happy or not.

[Trien Chieu]

If Cheung Mo Gei stayed with the Ming Cult, he would be the founder of the Ming Dynasty. Member of the Ming Cult would enjoy peace instead of being prosecuted. Chu Yuan Cheung wouldn't have a chance given how inferior his martial art is compare to Cheung Mo Gei.

When Chu Yuan Cheung prosecuted the Ming Cult after he found the Ming Dynasty, where is Cheung Mo Gei? Why did he not come back to save the Ming Cult members? Why did he not come back to confront Chu Yuan Cheung and demand him to free all the members? Given how powerful Cheung Mo Gei is, Chu Yuan Cheung would not dare to not follow his demand. Again, Chu Yuan Cheung is pretty weak in term of martial art.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

We must remember that he wasn't just turning his back on the Ming Sect but also Wu Dang.

ZWJ was the last competent member of the 3rd generation of Wu Dang (not counting the unborn child of hero 6), so his decision to leave meant abandoning his duties to Wu Dang as well.

If it wasn't for ZSF heart to heart talk with him I don't know if he would have had the courage to leave.

[Ken Cheng]

If Cheung Mo Gei stayed with the Ming Cult, he would be the founder of the Ming Dynasty.

He probably wouldn't, because he lacked the desire, talent, and disposition for such a role. Founding emperors of imperial dynasties were necessarily ruthless men, and Cheung Mo Gei didn't have a ruthless bone in his body.

[Doc Kwok]

Martial arts do not count for much here - probably even the weakest of the upper echelons in the Ming Cult could kill Zhu Yuanzhang with only their little finger. It is down to how much influence you have over the majority.

[tape]

I think we also just have to assume that there are enough imperial guards/masters (though of course none at Greats or near Greats level), traps, and trickery that assassinating the emperor isn't quite that simple, especially for someone like Zhu who is well aware of wulin abilities.

Otherwise, emperors would just get assassinated for fun by weirdos in wulin who have no reason to do so, but woke up and decided to do so one day.

[Ken Cheng]

I think we also just have to assume that there are enough imperial guards/masters (though of course none at Greats or near Greats level), traps, and trickery that assassinating the emperor isn't quite that simple, especially for someone like Zhu who is well aware of wulin abilities.

Otherwise, emperors would just get assassinated for fun by weirdos in wulin who have no reason to do so, but woke up and decided to do so one day.

Yip Goo Sing almost succeeded in accomplishing this goal, and it was only Luk Siu Fung's detective skills (and pure luck and imperfect planning on Yip's part) that thwarted him.

[tape]

He had a huge, elaborate scheme and was royalty himself along with being one the Great level fighters of the novel. That's a big difference from random wulin people or even "just" a Great like Wuji moseying in and easily killing the emperor.

[Ian Liew]

A better example would be Yuan Chengzi's failed attempt to assassinate Abahai - he was just completely overwhelmed by the security. If I remember correctly Jade Taoist was also there, which of course made it infinitely harder..

[Trien Chieu]

Yip Goo Sing almost succeeded in accomplishing this goal, and it was only Luk Siu Fung's detective skills (and pure luck and imperfect planning on Yip's part) that thwarted him.

Was't YGS and LSF are good friend? If so, why didn't he let YGS succeed or at least let him know his plan will not work. That way, YGS's life will be saved.

[Ken Cheng]

Was't YGS and LSF are good friend? If so, why didn't he let YGS succeed or at least let him know his plan will not work. That way, YGS's life will be saved.

Because if there's one thing that Luk Siu Fung values even more than friendship, it's justice. A number of Luk Siu Fung's enemies were originally his friends (e.g. Fok Yau from Book 1; Gum 9 Ling of Book 2; Yip Goo Sing of Book 3; Fong Yuk Fei of Book 4, Wooden Taoist of Book 5). If Luk Siu Fung valued friendship over justice, then evil men's evil schemes would succeed. Yip Goo Sing was Luk Siu Fung's friend, but Luk could not allow Yip's plot to assassinate the emperor (who seemed to be a benign ruler) succeed. Justice and the nation's well-being came before even friendship.

[daydreamer_gal]

A number of Luk Siu Fung's enemies were originally his friends (e.g. Fok Yau from Book 1; Gum 9 Ling of Book 2; Yip Goo Sing of Book 3; Fong Yuk Fei of Book 4, Wooden Taoist of Book 5).

That's like 100% of the main enemies/masterminds from the first 5 books. How is it that Lu Xiaofeng was that undiscerning about his friends true character? He generally gives the impression of being pretty savvy, except for this issue with his friends.

[Ken Cheng]

That's like 100% of the main enemies/masterminds from the first 5 books. How is it that Lu Xiaofeng was that undiscerning about his friends true character? He generally gives the impression of being pretty savvy, except for this issue with his friends.

Because these friends of Luk Siu Fung were *very* good at disguising their true characters and intentions. They didn't just fool Luk Siu Fung, but all of wulin, and when Gu Long was really at his best, the audience as well. Someone such as Yip Goo Sing doesn't seem like he could be a villain; he's basically another Sai Mun Chui Sheut. It was shocking when he was revealed as the mastermind of the plot to assassinate the emperor.

[daydreamer_gal]

That's true. It's just kind of funny that so many of these scheming villains turned out to be Lu Xiaofeng's friends. Guess he had so many different friends from all over that some were bound to be bad eggs.

[Ian Liew]

Because if there's one thing that Luk Siu Fung values even more than friendship, it's justice. A number of Luk Siu Fung's enemies were originally his friends (e.g. Fok Yau from Book 1; Gum 9 Ling of Book 2; Yip Goo Sing of Book 3; Fong Yuk Fei of Book 4, Wooden Taoist of Book 5). If Luk Siu Fung valued friendship over justice, then evil men's evil schemes would succeed. Yip Goo Sing was Luk Siu Fung's friend, but Luk could not allow Yip's plot to assassinate the emperor (who seemed to be a benign ruler) succeed. Justice and the nation's well-being came before even friendship.

In Ye Gucheng's case it was the most tragic, because I think at the point the plan was foiled, both of them wished that they could turn back time, as compared to the other four who no longer valued the friendship in light of their ambitions.

If I remember correctly...
YGC : "Why did you come here?"
LXF : "Why did you come?"
YGC : "Actually, I think neither of us should have come here..."

but it was too late by then.

[Trien Chieu]

In Ye Gucheng's case it was the most tragic, because I think at the point the plan was foiled, both of them wished that they could turn back time, as compared to the other four who no longer valued the friendship in light of their ambitions.

If I remember correctly...
YGC : "Why did you come here?"
LXF : "Why did you come?"
YGC : "Actually, I think neither of us should have come here..."

but it was too late by then.

LSF should have give YGS a second chance by telling him that his plan was foiled and persuade him to abandon his ambition.

[Ian Liew]

By that time Ye Gucheng had already held the Emperor at sword point and delivered the killing blow (which was intercepted by Lu Xiaofeng). He'd killed the four Yu brothers (the Emperor's personal bodyguards) and been complicit in a plot with the Royal cousin to usurp the throne, then backstabbed the royal cousin and revealed plans to usurp the throne himself. It would be far-fetched to even hope that the Emperor could possibly let him live. In any case Ye Gucheng's pride would probably not allow him to live as a fugitive, and there was no way he was going to abandon the duel with Ximen Chuixue even if he was pardoned (even if the duel was part of the plot in the first place) so it really was the best possible ending for him.