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Thread: LOCH 82, is it really all that?

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    Junior Member tp222's Avatar
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    Default LOCH 82, is it really all that?

    Okay, so I've finally decided to watch a couple of episodes of this series, I didn't plan to watch this series because I didn't find anyone pretty enough to bother watching it. However, considering how much people have been praising it, I got curious. Now, I came in trying to be objective as possible, and my conclusion is that it has to be THE most overrated series ever.

    The first thing I noticed is the lack of background music. Without them, it pretty much killed the mood. The 2nd thing I noticed is the lack of emotions in the voices. Most of the conversations just sounded way too "casual." IMO, the biggest mistake people make is to confuse a good script with good acting. To me, good acting is: using the proper(as in appropriate to the situations) emphasis in your voice, showing proper facial expressions, and showing proper body language(like how you use your hands, etc.) And I did not see these things in the 82's actors/actresses. Let me give you an example. In the 82 version, when Guo Jing went to Huang Rong to ask her how to get the medicines, Huang Rong set a trap to hang Guo Jing. This extra script allowed Barbara to show her "brattiness," and it did. However, in this case, the writers should get the credit, not Barbara. I would have given her more credit if she had put more emphasis in her voice, like when she said "the more you talk, the more adorable you look," or something like that. I mean, when you talk to someone up high, shouldn't you raise your voice a bit? Instead, you could barely hear her(which happened quite frequently with certain characters, at least in the episodes I saw, honestly, without the subs, I don't know how even native speakers could have understand it, without turning up the volume.)

    Now, when I started watching this series from episode 10(when she trapped Guo Jing and they escaped on the boat together), I went, oh okay, now I see why people think Barbara's so much better than Athena. The conversations were more drawn out and much funnier(especially when they encountered Mu Nianci), and she looked like a natural. However, I would attribute this to a good script more than good acting. But then, 82 loses as it went on. Barbara's entrance as "female" Huang Rong, for example, did not make sense at all(I thought the DVD had been cut at that point), and obviously, not nearly as mesmerizing as Athena's(though to be fair, Barbara probably could have never won this anyway, and no offense to Barbara fans, but her face looked better in the beggar clothing than in the girl costume!)

    In addition, a lot of the conversations did not flow at all. For example, when Mu Yi asked Huang Rong and Guo Jing what their names are, Huang Rong told him hers, but did not allow Guo Jing to say his, almost like she knew that the story would be spoiled if he had said it(since Mu Yi wasn't supposed to know that that was Guo Jing at that time). IMO, they would have been better off to just have skipped that part. Another example is when OuYang Ke and the Monk tried to block Mu Nianci when she tried to bring home the medicines. That was an awkward conversation if I ever saw one. I found out later that OuYang Ke wanted her to go home safely because the medicine was fake. But then, why did the monk refuse to go after her, because he's afraid of the prince? If so, then why did OuYang Ke tell him to go after her in the first place, after stopping him from doing so? The conversation was just convoluted and awkward, made even worse with all the pauses. Once again, they probably would have been better off to just skip that part, maybe show a clip of OuYang Ke giving the fake medicines to the cottage owner and then leave or something.

    Now I admire the 82 version for being original. In fact, that's one of the criticisms I have of the 94 version, it tried to copy the book too closely(I'm a big fan of creativity.) However, it's one thing to have a long script, it's another to have all of it being relevant and flowing smoothly. The 94's conversations were concise(people talk about the lack of chemistry between Athena and Julian, IMO, Huang Rong's gesture to Guo Jing when she wanted to eat the spoiled food showed more chemistry than the entire two episodes of the 82 version, between when Huang Rong first revealed to Guo Jing that she was a girl, to where they finally went to Zhou Palace) and appropriate to the situations.

    As far as the casting, well, I think it probably depends a lot on whether you're a guy or girl. However, if you've never read the book, then I doubt this would make much of a difference anyway. To me, the most important thing is the looks, especially when it comes to the main characters. Now I don't know much about the difference between the male characters, as far as the female characters, to me:

    Athena >> Barbara
    Mu Nianci 94 = Mu Nianci 82
    Hua Zheng 94 > Hua Zheng 82
    Xiruo 94 > Xiruo 82
    7th Teacher 94 > 7th Teacher 82

    The looks of the female characters of the 82 version are, shall I say, sad. Heck, one of OuYang Ke's concubines(the one that plays 7th Teacher in the 94 version) was probably the prettiest.

    94 wins, easily.

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    Senior Member almo89's Avatar
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    The first LOCH I ever saw was the 94 version. I loved it, but once I saw the 82 version, there was no comparison. 82 was clearly better in so many aspects.

    About the voices sounding quiet, that's actually a DVD issue and not the actors voices. There was a discussions about it on the DVD thread.

    The supporting cast was so much stronger in the 82 version. The big 4 and Zhou Bo Tong can't be touched at all. They all have charisma in their own way.

    I would love to hear what Ken has to say about this
    "If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put it in a bottle it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow, or it can crash. Be water my friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by almo89 View Post

    About the voices sounding quiet, that's actually a DVD issue and not the actors voices. There was a discussions about it on the DVD thread.

    The supporting cast was so much stronger in the 82 version. The big 4 and Zhou Bo Tong can't be touched at all. They all have charisma in their own way.
    [SIZE=2]I totally agree, 82 had the best ever supporting cast which made the whole series come together…. And yes I have seen 94s and also 2003 mainland production…and waiting for the 2007 to be released.

    Seriously I liked 94s but I truly have no memories of that production except it had the worst music,. I hate that chick but cant remember who it was…Emily Kwan I think and … that’s it… I cant remember the cast but they did an average job….

    2003 had the worst cast, everyone was completely miscast especially Yang Hong… and in my mind, no one can act out the big 4 as the ones in 82 did, I believed they completely nailed their performances and I havent seen anyone outdone them yet.

    I loved zhou ba tong and hong qi gong in 82 they were so fresh and their acting was just soo good and they both had so much charisma on screen and they had excellent chemistry with both GJ and HR, I even liked HR dad and his chemistry with his daughter…. Its funny especially when HR is angry and shes smashing everything in sight and instead of trying to talk her out of it, he helps her smash, its just funny…. Ouyeung feng and ouyeung hak were the best in 82… they were bad and oyh did everything to try and get HR but the 2003 version made him tooo weak and he wasn’t convincing as a bad guy either…. Best thing about 2003 version is Mui Chui feng looks soo much better and not freaky as 82 and I love the music of 2003
    [/SIZE]

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almo89 View Post
    I would love to hear what Ken has to say about this
    I think tp22 came into LOCH '82 *not wanting* to like it, and therefore, didn't.

    I admit I feel the same about all subsequent versions of LOCH. People generally prefer what they're most familiar with, which is all right as long as they recognize that as the reason.

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    Senior Member almo89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I think tp22 came into LOCH '82 *not wanting* to like it, and therefore, didn't.

    I admit I feel the same about all subsequent versions of LOCH. People generally prefer what they're most familiar with, which is all right as long as they recognize that as the reason.
    That's it? I was expecting one of your essays
    "If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put it in a bottle it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow, or it can crash. Be water my friends.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almo89 View Post
    That's it? I was expecting one of your essays
    I think the appeal of LOCH '82 over other versions is pretty self-evident. You, after all, got it, and you saw the 1994 version first. It's one of those things wherein someone either gets it or doesn't, and if someone doesn't, there's nothing I can write that's going to change that

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    Senior Member 0-0-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I admit I feel the same about all subsequent versions of LOCH. People generally prefer what they're most familiar with, which is all right as long as they recognize that as the reason.
    yeah, there is obviously some comparison that you make when you watch every other version of LOCH.

    For example, with the Greats from LOCH 82 (in particular HYS and H7G) + Zhou Bo Tong, every other version of LOCH/ROCH i watch, i keep comparing to the 82 cast.
    Ouyang Ke in the 82 version is also far better than the others. Those are probably consistently agreed on, as opposed to the whole HR debate. Plus, Michael Miu is the best Yang Kang IMO.

    In terms of looks, i think i am one of the only people who actually thinks Mu Nian Ci in the 80s version was really pretty. Obviously not in the modern way, but there's something classic about how she looks, plus she's amazing in fight scenes, as you would expect

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    I have vague but fond memories of LOCH82. I've always thought it the best LOCH82 until I rewatch it a few years ago (with all the positive expectation. So, I was not in the '*not wanting* to like it' mode). Boy. What a big disappointment. Some supporting cast like Kenneth Tsang, Chun Wong, Yeung Chak Lam, Yeung Pan Pan and Michael Miu were still good. But the 2 leads were disappointing. Their acting was very stagy and unnatural. So, were other actors. This version of Huang Rong was also way too bratty and vicious for me too like. She was actually serious in wanting to kill Mu Nian Chi.

    I manage to watch part 1 and 2, but didn't continue with part 3.

    Then, I went and rented LOCH94. Honestly, I like Athena and Julian's potrayal of Huang Rong and Guo Jing more. The script of LOCH94 was also more concise and not as draggy. And the Huang Rong here was sweeter. The other cast also does a commendable job. Actors who played To Lui, Ouyang Ke, Huang Yaoshi, 7 Freaks, Ma Yu, Hua Zheng etc were not inferior to the LOCH82 cast.

    Of course, there were some cast in LOCH82 that where better than LOCH94, namely the actors for
    Yang Kang
    Mu Nian Ci
    Zhou Bo Tong
    Ouyang Feng

    Potrayal wise

    Julian Cheung > Felix Wong
    Athena Chu > Barbara Yung
    Michael Miu > Gallen Lo
    Yeung Pan Pan > Emily Kwan
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Senior Member almo89's Avatar
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    A big complaint for older shows as is that it's long and draggy. I personally don't mind that as it gives time for character development which is lacking in today's shows.

    I still think Felix is the best Guo Jing. He totally has that dumbass look. Julian looked too smart I thought (ban ju sick lo fu). It was almost like he was trying to be stupid.
    "If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put it in a bottle it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow, or it can crash. Be water my friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I think tp22 came into LOCH '82 *not wanting* to like it, and therefore, didn't.

    I admit I feel the same about all subsequent versions of LOCH. People generally prefer what they're most familiar with, which is all right as long as they recognize that as the reason.
    I saw 82 first, but I was blown away by 2003. Perhaps it was the experience of watching the 2003 version as I was following the translation here, but the match between screen and text was almost flawless. I would never have imagined Zhou Xun's performance as Huang Rong, but having seen it, I can't imagine anything better.

    The 80s music is still superb though.

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    i always said the 94 was better and i will continue to and yes i am bias cause i saw the 94 first lol but i tried watching the 82, its just that after 3 eps, i cant take it anymore...
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    Senior Member almo89's Avatar
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    Now this is a showdown:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=O1-1oVlN3KE
    "If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put it in a bottle it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow, or it can crash. Be water my friends.

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    I watched the 94 version first but I got so disinterested that I fast forwarded through most of it. A few years later I watched the 82 version, aside from that it gets a little draggy sometimes I loved everything about it. One of the best advantages the series have are the supporting characters. I really didn't care about Yang Kang or Mu Nianci as characters until I watched Michael Miu and Yeung Pan Pan playing them, same with the older supporting characters. I started to watch the 2003 version thinking that it would never be as good as the 82 one but I was so impressed with it that it's become one of my favorite wuxia series. So while the 82 and the 2003 impressed me (and got me interested in wuxia), the 94 couldn't even keep me interested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by almo89 View Post
    hey that is the same h7g as the 94 version person... so how can the 82 h7g be better than the 94 one?

    and barbara yung looks like she is 30, not suitable for HR.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuNaR View Post
    hey that is the same h7g as the 94 version person... so how can the 82 h7g be better than the 94 one?
    Same actor and same role, but eleven years later, with a different director and screenwriter. It makes a world of difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuNaR View Post
    i always said the 94 was better and i will continue to and yes i am bias cause i saw the 94 first lol but i tried watching the 82, its just that after 3 eps, i cant take it anymore...
    I think I seen the 94 version too but couldn't remember much about it. Must be that the actors/actress didn't impress me that much. When I watch the 82 version of it, I like it more. In my opinion there were more chemistry between couples and also great supporting cast. Honestly I prefer older series than mondern one right now.

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    In every aspect, I still find the 1982 version better. When comparing the 2, I don't see much of a comparision. When watching the 1994 version, I couldn't help but picture the 1982 version. Despite of which adaption I've watched first, 1982 is still better. It deserves to be a greatly known series.

    Now I'm not being biased. I'm a big Wuxia fan and of TVB Series. I love series from the golden 80's. Theres just some magic or that something in the old series that just makes them unique. I maybe not be the biggest fan of Athena and Julian but I'll give them credit for trying to portray GJ & HR with originality
    Last edited by cutiekhmergirl; 08-30-10 at 04:45 AM.

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    Edited for undue nastiness. I had a bad feeling this subject would turn into a train wreck.

    Let's continue without further unpleasant interruptions, shall we?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cutiekhmergirl View Post
    In every aspect, I still find the 1982 version better. When comparing the 2, I don't see much of a comparision. When watching the 1994 version, I couldn't help but picture the 1982 version. Despite of which adaption I've watched first, 1982 is still better. It deserves to be a greatly known series.

    Now I'm not being biased. I'm a big Wuxia fan and of TVB Series. I love series from the golden 80's. Theres just some magic or that something in the old series that just makes them unique. I maybe not be the biggest fan of Athena and Julian but I'll give them credit for trying hard portraying GJ & HR. 1994 will be my second favourite adaption since I do find it better than the 2003 version.
    seems pretty biased to me but i respect ur opinion
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    Oh dear! People are dissing my beloved Wong Wan Choi (OYK 82)! Oh dear!

    I saw the 82 version first when i was 4 or something. i remember parts, but not the whole story.

    Then I saw the 94 version around 95 and was disappointed. Most of the supporting cast lacked cohesion and chemistry. It looked like the actors/actresses were just reciting lines or overacting. The Quan Zhen 7 were the most disappointing and I couldn't feel the tie between them. Huang Yao Shi (Lok Ying Kwun) got too much make-up and he had no whatsoever chemistry with Athena. And that Indian music was shocking! Zhou Bo Tong was too young, he was supposed to be old but act young, not actually look young.

    Gallen IMO was miscasted as he looks shockingly modern and his costume made hsi head seem huge and old (he was supposed to 16 or 18 in the book). Emily is simply not beautiful enough to be MNC. They look old together and next to J + A, they look odd. But Gallen's acting was good. OYF did not look or act like a dignified and cunning martial expert, he acted like a hot-headed barbarian from Turkey. OYF (mine mine mine! ) was way better in 82. I can't talk about OYK because i am biased.

    The cast that I thought was good was actually was the really old veterans like Lau Kong (Genghis Khan), Wong Wai (Wangyan Hong Lie), Lau Dan (Hong 7 Gong), and Lai Hon Chi (Reverend 1 Deng). The girls who played Ying Gu and Hua Zheng (Chan Pui San) were also good.

    Yes, the 94 version followed the book closely, they did the exact same things but the characters had no soul. I couldn't feel the hatred between the three nationalities or the internal conflict of Yeung Hong. It just didn't work for me!
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