The Peak of ELOC

[pannonian]

OK, here are a few. Guess where they come from and their respective claims to ELOC fame.
1. Sun Sanba (this one's easy!)
2. Jingzhao
3. Zuo Shanshan
4. Jian Jie
5. Lü Qingtu
6. Jinxi
7. Huyan Wanshan

Was Lu Qingdu the disciple of Zhao Zhijing who was tricked and tied up by Yang Guo, later took his revenge at the novices' contest (directed by Cui Zhifang), and was later kicked into orbit by Yang Guo?

[HuangYushi]

5. Lü Qingtu

Was Lu Qingdu the disciple of Zhao Zhijing who was tricked and tied up by Yang Guo, later took his revenge at the novices' contest (directed by Cui Zhifang), and was later kicked into orbit by Yang Guo?

No, no. Note the differences in spelling, and try again.

[PJ]

OK, here are a few. Guess where they come from and their respective claims to ELOC fame.
3. Zuo Shanshan

If I didn't know any better, I would say this is the descendant of SWORD GOD Zuo... I mean Zhuo Bufan!

But, how can one forget the cute little kid that is Zuo Shanshan who was almost eaten by Xuzhu's mother!

[HuangYushi]

If I didn't know any better, I would say this is the descendant of SWORD GOD Zuo... I mean Zhuo Bufan!

But, how can one forget the cute little kid that is Zuo Shanshan who was almost eaten by Xuzhu's mother!

Hey, think of a more positive claim to ELOC fame!

Zuo Shanshan gave the Marquis of Shanchan Gao Shengtai the opportunity to make a grand entrance (flute music that could be heard over long distances, using internal energy to heat up the metal body of the flute, etc, etc), show off some martial arts PLUS a good degree of resourcefulness and wit in order to overcome Ye the Second.

Of course, we find out later that Gao Shengtai isn't so great after all.

[PJ]

Hey, think of a more positive claim to ELOC fame!

Zuo Shanshan gave the Marquis of Shanchan Gao Shengtai the opportunity to make a grand entrance (flute music that could be heard over long distances, using internal energy to heat up the metal body of the flute, etc, etc), show off some martial arts PLUS a good degree of resourcefulness and wit in order to overcome Ye the Second.

Of course, we find out later that Gao Shengtai isn't so great after all.

As much as I love Gao Shengtai's ELOCtude, I have to say that his entrance was rather phony. All that flute music and slow walking, while his friends are doing the busy work -- evoke the infamous habits of Yellow-dressed Lady! And talk about wit, Gao Shengtai didn't need to blow all that exquisite music and heat up a metal instrument and blow a hidden projectile into Ye Erniang's face! Ye Erniang was already busy handling his friends, so all he needed to do was whack her in the head and she would have been subdued, but instead he definitely took the showy route.

[HuangYushi]

Does anyone remember Tang Zude, who was the Grandteacher of a Great?

Some more tidbits about Tang Zude. During his appearance, we are told his history, current occupation, why he had this occupation, how he felt about his history, his feelings on interacting with more famous individuals, and his eventual shaming, and from that some measure of his character can be deduced. All contained in a short excerpt, around the length of a Foxs update.

Does anyone know who I'm talking about?

I do. Good choice for an ELOC!

But I'm not too sure about him being a Grandteacher of a Great.
Which Great?

[HuangYushi]

As much as I love Gao Shengtai's ELOCtude, I have to say that his entrance was rather phony. All that flute music and slow walking, while his friends are doing the busy work -- evoke the infamous habits of Yellow-dressed Lady! And talk about wit, Gao Shengtai didn't need to blow all that exquisite music and heat up a metal instrument and blow a hidden projectile into Ye Erniang's face! Ye Erniang was already busy handling his friends, so all he needed to do was whack her in the head and she would have been subdued, but instead he definitely took the showy route.

Haha! I guess that's what happens when JY tries to turn a not-so-nice real-life person to a much-nicer-and-cooler fictitious character!

[STARTQUOTE]In real-life, Gao Shengtai, a descendant of the first Marquis of Yue, Gao Fang (see Duan Siping), ascended the throne of Dali as the founder and king of a new Great Central Nation [大中国 Da4 Zhong1 Guo2] in 1094 after Duan Zhengming was forced into abdicating.[ENDQUOTE]

So there must be some measure of ELOC-ness between the real and the fictitious Gao Shengtai and the eventual involvement of the fictitious one in the rescue Zuo Shanshan.

Failing which ... Gao Shengtai could go down in the ELOC-dom as the predecessor of the ELOC-esque activity of "distracting pugilists and irritating readers by playing mesmerising music and making a grandiose entrance during a nail-biting hair-pulling edge-of-seat emergency."

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Back to topic:

Gao Shengtai is too well-known for the purposes of this thread. We'll have to ditch him at some point.

[PJ]

Failing which ... Gao Shengtai could go down in the ELOC-dom as the predecessor of the ELOC-esque activity of "distracting pugilists and irritating readers by playing mesmerising music and making a grandiose entrance during a nail-biting hair-pulling edge-of-seat emergency."

Yes, I believe he was the first to do that, chronologically.

---

Back to topic:

Gao Shengtai is too well-known for the purposes of this thread. We'll have to ditch him at some point.

Actually, I think most readers just know him as the Dali flute guy -- what's his name? But yeah, his character is too well-established to qualify for this topic.

[PJ]

Some more tidbits about Tang Zude. During his appearance, we are told his history, current occupation, why he had this occupation, how he felt about his history, his feelings on interacting with more famous individuals, and his eventual shaming, and from that some measure of his character can be deduced. All contained in a short excerpt, around the length of a Foxs update.

Does anyone know who I'm talking about?

Sounds like Feng Qingyang?

and a little bit of Qu San (Qu Lingfeng).

[spyro]

By the way, What does ELOC mean ?

Exposing Lovable Overlooked Characters?
Opps.. I missed HYS post..

Sun Sanba = Divine Croc's Disciple? (DGSD)

[HuangYushi]

Sun Sanba = Divine Croc's Disciple? (DGSD)

Good! Now, what is Sun Sanba's claim to ELOC fame, him being Divine Croc's disciple notwithstanding?

[pannonian]

I do. Good choice for an ELOC!

But I'm not too sure about him being a Grandteacher of a Great.
Which Great?

He taught the father of a Great, which puts him in the same position as Zhang Sanfeng. Zhang Cuishan called Zhang Sanfeng "shifu", as did this Great's father to this character. However, while Zhang Wuji happily called Zhang Sanfeng "Grandteacher", the Great never acknowledged this character.

Towards the end of the novel when the Great met some of this character's former associates, IMHO they should have told him about this character.

Sounds like Feng Qingyang?

and a little bit of Qu San (Qu Lingfeng).

This LC is so O, far more than Qu San or Feng Qingyang, that he needs to be Eed. I doubt even Jinyong remembers him.

Edit: My mistake. This character makes a very brief appearance again later, 2 chapters after his grand entrance.

[HuangYushi]

He taught the father of a Great, which puts him in the same position as Zhang Sanfeng. Zhang Cuishan called Zhang Sanfeng "shifu", as did this Great's father to this character. However, while Zhang Wuji happily called Zhang Sanfeng "Grandteacher", the Great never acknowledged this character.

Yes, you're right. I missed that one name when I looked this ELOC up earlier. Thanks!

Towards the end of the novel when the Great met some of this character's former associates, IMHO they should have told him about this character.

Why? It's not that the Great's father ever bothered about acknowledging this character in a significant way, unlike how Zhang Sanfeng meant almost everything to Zhang Cuishan.

[Candide]

That Great is Yang Guo. Good find.

[yittz]

Have no idea what you guys are going on about.

Funny how ZZL, ZWJ and Yellow lady at the end all have their roots traced back to YG.

[HuangYushi]

Have no idea what you guys are going on about.

It's ELOC time ... Exposing Lovable Overlooked Characters again!
And since it's all about ELOC, we sometimes talk indirectly so as not to let the ELOC out of the bag until the time is right!

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PJ: I think it's about time to put a list of candidates in the first post of this thread, based on contributions so far.

---

Guess where they come from and their respective claims to ELOC fame.
1. Sun Sanba (this one's easy!)
2. Jingzhao
3. Zuo Shanshan
4. Jian Jie
5. Lü Qingtu
6. Jinxi
7. Huyan Wanshan

Right, so far, I've got only 3 replies to the list above:

1. Sun Sanba - which spyro correctly identified as Divine Croc's disciple, but without specifying Sun's claim to ELOC fame.

3. Zuo Shanshan - which PJ correctly identified as an abductee of Ye the Second, without mentioning that he is also Zuo Zimu's son. Efforts to identify Shanshan's claim to ELOC fame has, so far, pulled up Gao Shengtai and his own dubious ELOC-esque claim to fame as the predecessor of the Woman in Yellow in "distracting pugilists and irritating readers by playing mesmerising music and making a grandiose entrance during a nail-biting hair-pulling edge-of-seat emergency".

5. Lü Qingtu - which pannonian mistook for Lu Qingdu from ROCH.

*

Does anyone want to try to finish identifying the other characters on the list? Or are these characters true candidates for the grand award of the MOST MINOR ELOC?

PS: And don't overlook the character below too:

Wuwang Apu.

[Athena]

2) Jingzhao --> Buddhist monk in the Flying Fox of Snowy Mountain. A rather reckless Buddhist monk and Liu Yuanhe conveniently used him to block some poisonous darts. The darts hit his throat and he was as dead as a dodo.
He wields a pair of sabres that Buddhist monks use. Martial arts wise --> weaker than Tao Zi'an.

7) Huyan Wanshan ---> disciple of the Snow Mountain school, younger martial arts brother of Bai Wanjian and Feng Wanli. He and others were sent out by Bai Zizai to capture Shi Zhongyu. Martial arts ----> not very high and if I am not mistaken Bai Wanjian give him some pointers on martial arts.

5) Lü Qingtu ---> formerly known as Cai Qingtu in second edition of DGSD. He was the enemy of Ke Baisui. He was a local tyrant and was responsible for the death of Ke Baisui's friend. Ke's martial arts were said to be at least ten times superior to him, however Ke chose to go to court instead. Qingtu bribed the magistrate and got away with murder.
Ke's martial arts brother Cui Baiquan stormed into Qingtu's residence one evening and started a small masacre. There Cui Baiquan encountered Murong Bo. It is not known whether Qingtu was killed or not. If he was killed it was not certain who killed him? It could be Cui or Murong.

For some names I need to see the Chinese characters.

Wuwang Apu: head disciple of Lu Zhangke (one of the Xuanming elders). Fan Yao sealed his acupoint in the pagoda. Most likely he was burnt to death.

[pannonian]

Does anyone want to try to finish identifying the other characters on the list? Or are these characters true candidates for the grand award of the MOST MINOR ELOC?

Some of us can't read Chinese, and rely on the translations for our knowledge of Jinyong novels. For us, the many minor characters of DGSD and other novels are a mystery. For us, Jinyong's repertoire consists of the Condor trilogy (up to the point in HSDS Foxs has translated to) plus XAJH.

PS: And don't overlook the character below too:

Wuwang Apu is the senior (only?) disciplie of Xuanming elder Lu Zhangke. He guarded his master's door while Lu Zhangke prepared to have his way with Prince Ruyang's concubine. He also runs a Kwik-E-Mart in Springfield.

[Pacifian]

Edited: Both answered by Athena

PS: I thought Jingzhao was the nun from E'mei instead

[PJ]

5) Lü Qingtu ---> formerly known as Cai Qingtu in second edition of DGSD. He was the enemy of Ke Baisui. He was a local tyrant and was responsible for the death of Ke Baisui's friend. Ke's martial arts were said to be at least ten times superior to him, however Ke chose to go to court instead. Qingtu bribed the magistrate and got away with murder.
Ke's martial arts brother Cui Baiquan stormed into Qingtu's residence one evening and started a small masacre. There Cui Baiquan encountered Murong Bo. It is not known whether Qingtu was killed or not. If he was killed it was not certain who killed him? It could be Cui or Murong.

Sounds very interesting.

Any reason why Jin Yong changed his surname from Cai to Lu?

By the way, although a wonderful ELOC, Lu Qingtu wouldn't qualify under the topic at hand since he was only mentioned in a flashback. I'm looking for characters who actually appeared in present novel time. Nevertheless, massive props to HuangYushi for exposing him and to Athena for demystifying him.