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Thread: Xue Shan Fei Hu - Flying fox of snowy mountains

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    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Default Xue Shan Fei Hu - Flying fox of snowy mountains

    Thought I'd start a thread on this book, since the latest fad by PJ and co is about bringing about the less well known. Did a thread search and there isn't really much talk dedicated to this novel.

    So, who have read the novel? And what are your general opinions of the book/adaptions. Themes?

    I am watching the latest adaption with one of Twins in it. So far enjoying it to the point of reading the actual novel. One nitpicking so far is Ah Si - the one who took care of Hu Fei. He saw everything in the adaption - all of Tian's schemes with the vet, yet he didn't tell a thing to Hu couple when he promised to do everything he could. Another is fighting in an avalanche, but at least so far to dragon blowing rocks up.

    Of course a wuxia thread cannot go ahead without asking who is the strongest in the novel? So far (5 chapters in) I can't see anyone bettering Hu Yi Dao and Miao Ren Feng. How does Tian compare to them - can 3 Tians beat one etc. How do these fighters compare to rest of JY canon? Also what's the relation of this book to the other snowy book.
    Last edited by yittz; 12-21-07 at 01:17 AM.
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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yittz View Post
    So, who have read the novel?
    I have.

    And what are your general opinions of the book/adaptions. Themes?
    I enjoyed the book, mainly because the story is told in a manner different from the other more well-known JY novels. I like the way how different parties offered their own stories of the conflict between Hu Yidao and Miao Renfeng, as it gave me (the reader) the opportunity to sift through the details and piece everything together. [OK, I like to do that when I read. ]

    I do not really see a strong central theme emerging from the story, since it is only 10 chapters long, and at least half of it revolved around the story-telling by the different parties. But I do see it as an exploration of sorts by JY in his writing, as the title character did not physically appear in the story until almost half-way through. The story feels closer to any given day in the jianghu, in that there was a group of people going about their own business (Chapter 1), only to be dragged by a strange monk with even stranger skills and a definitely un-"monkly" vocabulary into a mess involving two generations of Hus/Miaos as well as some rather high-ranking government officials.

    I am watching the latest adaption with one of Twins in it. So far enjoying it to the point of reading the actual novel. One nitpicking so far is Ah Si - the one who took care of Hu Fei. He saw everything in the adaption - all of Tian's schemes with the vet, yet he didn't tell a thing to Hu couple when he promised to do everything he could. Another is fighting in an avalanche, but at least so far to dragon blowing rocks up.
    I have not seen ANY Flying Fox adaptation, not even the 90s one from TVB (with Ray Lui Leung Wai).

    I can't remember exactly what happened with A'Si in the novel (unless I look it up), but I think it was a combination of fear, inexperience and general ignorance that held A'Si back until his conscience got the better of him. Anyone who has a better recollection of this, please help me out.

    Of course a wuxia thread cannot go ahead without asking who is the strongest in the novel? So far (5 chapters in) I can't see anyone bettering Hu Yi Dao and Miao Ren Feng. How does Tian compare to them - can 3 Tians beat one etc. How do these fighters compare to rest of JY canon?
    By the time the events in the novel Flying Fox of Snowy Mountain took place, Hu Yidao was already dead for almost 30 years. Tian Guinong had just passed away, as evidented by the mourning clothes worn by his daughter. Therefore, the only decent fighters left were Miao Renfeng, Hu Fei, monk Baoshu and Qing officer Liu Yuanhe.

    Information from "the other snowy book" (Other Tales of the Flying Fox) seems to indicate that Tian Guinong is nowhere near to skill-level of Hu Yidao and Miao Renfeng.

    Also what's the relation of this book to the other snowy book.
    Other Tales of the Flying Fox is set about 10-15 years earlier than Flying Fox of Snowy Mountain, and talks about Hu Fei's life as an adolescent. It gives readers a lot of background on Hu Fei, and some minor characters like the twins that served as Hu's messengers in Snowy Mountain.

    Flying Fox of Snowy Mountain should be read first, followed by Other Tales, as that was the order in which they were written. The flow works better in this way than the other way around, which is how a number of the adaptations were done.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
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    I love the story of XSHF from watching adaptations and would love to read more on the story. Does anyone know where I can find the English version of this novel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellamia View Post
    I love the story of XSHF from watching adaptations and would love to read more on the story. Does anyone know where I can find the English version of this novel?
    http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=13451
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangYushi View Post
    Thanks HY! I was so close to ordering the book on Amazon.com, until I read the reviews. Have you read the English version, HY? Is the translation that horrible as the reviewers alleged? This story has left a good imprint on my mind, so I don't want to ruin it by reading a bad translation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellamia View Post
    Have you read the English version, HY? Is the translation that horrible as the reviewers alleged? This story has left a good imprint on my mind, so I don't want to ruin it by reading a bad translation.
    I don't read translations because I can read Chinese and thus prefer to read the original text. But the comments on Amazon as well as in the thread posted above would give you an idea as to what to expect. Perhaps you could browse through a copy from a library or a bookstore before making a decision to buy. I'm sorry I can't be more helpful in this.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
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    what about SPT, I need my SPT fix ASAP, pretty pleaseeeee...
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangYushi View Post
    I don't read translations because I can read Chinese and thus prefer to read the original text. But the comments on Amazon as well as in the thread posted above would give you an idea as to what to expect. Perhaps you could browse through a copy from a library or a bookstore before making a decision to buy. I'm sorry I can't be more helpful in this.
    No problem, thanks for your feedbacks! I will spare $23 bucks and get this novel as a Christmas present to myself. I will revisit this thread and let you know what I think about it afterward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellamia View Post
    No problem, thanks for your feedbacks! I will spare $23 bucks and get this novel as a Christmas present to myself. I will revisit this thread and let you know what I think about it afterward.
    Great! I look forward to your post!
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
    Quote Originally Posted by atlantean0208
    what about SPT, I need my SPT fix ASAP, pretty pleaseeeee...
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    I finished the adaption, which started well but then waned terribly when CLS died. I do wish directors/producers use their head before making any drastic plot changes. Hu Fei was completely out of character, though MRF was awesome.

    Fei Hu Wai Zhuan was a great read. Cheng Ling Su was even more giving than the adaption and such intelligence that rivals HR's, but more class and subtlety.

    Hu Fei is alright as a character - nothing standing out particularly, kind of like a mix between YG and ZWJ.

    YZY - I don't understand the hatred towards her.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yittz View Post
    Fei Hu Wai Zhuan was a great read. Cheng Ling Su was even more giving than the adaption and such intelligence that rivals HR's, but more class and subtlety.
    Yes, that's why she's my all-time favourite female character in Jinyong.
    YZY - I don't understand the hatred towards her.
    I don't hate Yuan Ziyi, but I do find her quite annoying. Or perhaps I just have a lower tolerance for bratty characters who think that people enjoy being teased as much as they (the brats) enjoy being teasers. Worse, Yuan Ziyi is so un-nun-like (right until the end of the book when her true identity is revealed), unlike Yilin from SPW, who would certainly find many more sympathizers for her personal struggles than Yuan would.

    So ... why do you not understand the hatred towards Yuan Ziyi?
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
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    I thought the rivalry described in the novel was great but the ending left me very disappointed. Also the love between the main characters seemed a bit random.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangYushi View Post
    I don't hate Yuan Ziyi, but I do find her quite annoying. Or perhaps I just have a lower tolerance for bratty characters who think that people enjoy being teased as much as they (the brats) enjoy being teasers. Worse, Yuan Ziyi is so un-nun-like (right until the end of the book when her true identity is revealed), unlike Yilin from SPW, who would certainly find many more sympathizers for her personal struggles than Yuan would.

    So ... why do you not understand the hatred towards Yuan Ziyi?
    Fair enough. She was like child HR but in the situation of Yilin. I guess she didn't want to be a nun since meeting Hu Fei. Should never have given the jade butterfly.

    What I find interesting is her relationship with her father. It'd be an interesting debate to see whether she should seek to kill her father straight off, or just let it pass and whether the father deserves 3 chances.
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    Cheng Lingsu is one of my favourite characters in the entire Jin Yong universe. On a melancholic day, when I read the part she dies my eyes get teary.
    I loved the part when Cheng Lingsu where she helped Hu Fei putting up a fake beard. And ten years later, Hu Fei did have a beard unfortunately she wasn't alive to see that anymore.

    Yuan Ziyi is more annoying than anything. Feng Tiannan would have never regarded Yuan Ziyi as his real daughter, he might have pretended if it suited him. Look at that way he talked about Yingu.
    But I find Tang Pei more horrible than Feng Tiannan.
    There are so many injustices in that book, that were so tragic: Cheng Lingsu,
    the family Zhong, Xu Cheng, Ma Chunhua, Li Tingpao, Jiang Tieshan and son and so on.

    It was also in this book that I 'forgave' Chen Jialuo. His melancholic aura just made my anger for him disappear.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

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    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    I also had teary eye when i found out CLS dying in the story too.

    Saddest female JY character?

    Han sOlo
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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    I think they're probably at the same level as or one level below Ah Qing, which is about the level of a 2nd or 3rd generation Quan Zhen disciple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
    I also had teary eye when i found out CLS dying in the story too.
    Saddest female JY character?
    Perhaps. There's also Ling Shuanghua from Linked Cities.
    Ling Shuanghua is very sad in a tragic sense, just like Cheng Lingsu. The only difference is that Ling wasn't given as much active and lengthy participation as Cheng in the course of the novel, so her tragedy might not have been expressed as explicitly as Cheng's or have as much impact on readers.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    Cheng Lingsu is one of my favourite characters in the entire Jin Yong universe. On a melancholic day, when I read the part she dies my eyes get teary.
    I loved the part when Cheng Lingsu where she helped Hu Fei putting up a fake beard. And ten years later, Hu Fei did have a beard unfortunately she wasn't alive to see that anymore.

    Yuan Ziyi is more annoying than anything. Feng Tiannan would have never regarded Yuan Ziyi as his real daughter, he might have pretended if it suited him. Look at that way he talked about Yingu.
    But I find Tang Pei more horrible than Feng Tiannan.
    There are so many injustices in that book, that were so tragic: Cheng Lingsu,
    the family Zhong, Xu Cheng, Ma Chunhua, Li Tingpao, Jiang Tieshan and son and so on.

    It was also in this book that I 'forgave' Chen Jialuo. His melancholic aura just made my anger for him disappear.
    I admit CLS dying was probably the saddest part for me in the JY novels I've read. Character wise she replaces Cheng Yin as my top.

    I still don't understand why her teacher made Yuan Ziyi save her biological father 3 times - surely not killing him/vengence is enough. He wasn't a father to her and she owes him nothing.

    You remember so much, I just finished the novel and forgotten half the characters you mentioned. I would like to add Miao Ren Feng to that as Tian Gui Nong got away with too much.
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    Yuan Ziyi's teacher is one of the most disliked characters out there.
    Furthermore, someone like Feng Tiannan really got what he deserved (I liked how Jin Yong decided to give him a more 'deserving' death than he got in edition 2.

    The Young Flying Fox is one of my personal favourites (not just a favourite Jin Yong novel, but a novel in general it is a personal favourite) it's a shame that people don't discuss this novel that often. I just love this book.

    Tian Guinong is a person who has a lot of ambition, he's not stupid (like Zhao Zhijing) but he's just not intelligent enough to pull off the things he wants to accomplish. He can be his successful Northern Tianlong School leader, but messing around with Miao Renfeng, being arrogant and smug at a Wulin conference are not things within his calibre. He's doomed to fail if he tries to move beyong what he is capable of.

    In edition 3, he was totally humiliated by Hu Fei during the Wulin conference. And almost all the attending Wulin people sort of laughed and made fun of his public humiliation. Which was brilliant.

    The top people in the novel, by extension you have to include the people from the Book and the Sword too to fit the entire era. (The Book and the Sword, The Flying Fox of Snowy Mountain and the Young Flying Fox).

    In the same year that Hu Yidao and Miao Renfeng duelled, the first chapter of the Book and the Sword started.
    So, people around or superior to Miao and Hu are:
    - Yuan Shixiao (teacher of Chen Jialuo)
    - Afanti (an expert of Xinjiang)
    - Yu Wanting (the old 'helmsman' of the Red Flower Society)
    - Cheng Zhengde (One of the Two Eagles of Tianshan)
    - Guan Mingmei (wife of Zheng Zhengde, teacher of Huo Qingtong)
    - Wang Weiyang (father of the Wang brothers of the Eight Trigrams School)
    - Zhang Zhaozhong (Wudang expert working for the Qing government)
    - Ma Zhen (Wudang leader)
    - Lu Feiqing (Wudang expert, sworn brother of Zhao Banshan)
    - Reverend Wuchen
    - Zhao Banshan
    - Wen Tailai
    - Abbot Tianhong (Abbot of Southern Shaolin)
    - Reverend Tianjing (martial arts brother of abbot Tianhong)
    - Chen Jialuo
    - Zhou Zhongying (friend of the Red Flower Society)
    - Bai Zhen (head of the imperial guards of the Qing government during the BS era)

    (Speculated experts around the level of the people above: Abbot Dazhi of the Northern Shaolin and the teacher of Yuan Ziyi, the unnamed Emei Buddhist nun)
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

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    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    In edition 3, he was totally humiliated by Hu Fei during the Wulin conference. And almost all the attending Wulin people sort of laughed and made fun of his public humiliation. Which was brilliant.

    The top people in the novel, by extension you have to include the people from the Book and the Sword too to fit the entire era. (The Book and the Sword, The Flying Fox of Snowy Mountain and the Young Flying Fox).

    In the same year that Hu Yidao and Miao Renfeng duelled, the first chapter of the Book and the Sword started.
    So, people around or superior to Miao and Hu are:
    - Yuan Shixiao (teacher of Chen Jialuo)
    - Afanti (an expert of Xinjiang)
    - Yu Wanting (the old 'helmsman' of the Red Flower Society)
    - Cheng Zhengde (One of the Two Eagles of Tianshan)
    - Guan Mingmei (wife of Zheng Zhengde, teacher of Huo Qingtong)
    - Wang Weiyang (father of the Wang brothers of the Eight Trigrams School)
    - Zhang Zhaozhong (Wudang expert working for the Qing government)
    - Ma Zhen (Wudang leader)
    - Lu Feiqing (Wudang expert, sworn brother of Zhao Banshan)
    - Reverend Wuchen
    - Zhao Banshan
    - Wen Tailai
    - Abbot Tianhong (Abbot of Southern Shaolin)
    - Reverend Tianjing (martial arts brother of abbot Tianhong)
    - Chen Jialuo
    - Zhou Zhongying (friend of the Red Flower Society)
    - Bai Zhen (head of the imperial guards of the Qing government during the BS era)

    (Speculated experts around the level of the people above: Abbot Dazhi of the Northern Shaolin and the teacher of Yuan Ziyi, the unnamed Emei Buddhist nun)

    Thanks for that Athena - must read the other 2 books. 3rd edition looks interesting.

    The list is in no particular order right? It seems Miao Rengfeng was not just being modest when he said his title of unbeatable is utter bull.

    One question: Tianshan - I hear it mention a lot recently, but not in previous novels I read - where, what sect is that? It seems to rival sects one level below Shaolin Wudang, like 8 Trigrams and Tai ji sect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangYushi View Post
    I enjoyed the book, mainly because the story is told in a manner different from the other more well-known JY novels. I like the way how different parties offered their own stories of the conflict between Hu Yidao and Miao Renfeng, as it gave me (the reader) the opportunity to sift through the details and piece everything together. [OK, I like to do that when I read. ]

    I do not really see a strong central theme emerging from the story, since it is only 10 chapters long, and at least half of it revolved around the story-telling by the different parties. But I do see it as an exploration of sorts by JY in his writing, as the title character did not physically appear in the story until almost half-way through. The story feels closer to any given day in the jianghu, in that there was a group of people going about their own business (Chapter 1), only to be dragged by a strange monk with even stranger skills and a definitely un-"monkly" vocabulary into a mess involving two generations of Hus/Miaos as well as some rather high-ranking government officials.
    Finished reading it - really liked the way it was written. Kind of like a detective story, quite refreshing. It's amazing how it flowed from one 'narrator' to the next.

    Just didn't like the ending, frustrated me to no end Hu Fei + Mei Ruo Lan didn't explain the situation. I expected MRF to recognise Hu Fei from 8 years ago based on the martial arts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yittz View Post
    Just didn't like the ending, frustrated me to no end Hu Fei + Mei Ruo Lan didn't explain the situation. I expected MRF to recognise Hu Fei from 8 years ago based on the martial arts.
    I agree, Miao Renfeng should have recognised Hu Fei from the martial arts, now that JY has the benefit of the hindsight that was absent during the initial writing of the two Flying Fox stories and the opportunity to make suitable amendments.

    In addition, I find Hu Fei's relationship with Miao Ruolan rather "strange". It is supposed to be a "romantic relationship", but it is quite incredible that such a relationship can develop so quickly between two people in the midst of chaos and danger who have not had any prior meaningful personal contact for donkey years.

    That is why the ending somehow gives me the impression that JY was so focused on creating/achieving the "cliff-hanger" that he forgot (and later, probably chose to ignore) just about everything else.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
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