Identify the top 3 most powerful Organizations in each Jin Yong novel

[PJ]

as the name suggests... for each novel, identify the top 3 organizations, whose members offer the most power combined power (martial arts wise).

Let me start with Ode to Gallantry as an example.

1. definitely Gallant Island. Two of their 20+ disciples are enough to wipe out most Mainland organizations. The 2 lords alone were able to block the gates of Shaolin; I don't think the entire Gallant Island would have any trouble eliminating Shaolin with ease.

2. Shaolin? Abbot Miaodi was described as extremely capable. Plus Shaolin was prominent as usual.

3. Wudang? Same reason as Shaolin.



Now let me try DGSD:

1. Xiaoyao Sect - if we count Tianshan Tonglao's 108 organizations, plus her Lingjiu Palace, plus the 2 other Xiaoyao Elders, plus Ding Chunqiu's organization -- the sum of this umbrella should definitely be enough to demolish any other organization in DGSD era.

2. Shaolin - with over 20+ Xuan generation monks, roughly equal to 4 to 6 DGSD Elites; plus all the lower level disciples and the formations, Shaolin has the potential to top the DGSD era.

3. Beggar's Union - Although the largest organization by number, they only had one DGSD Elite, about 3 Elders at the level of Evil #3, and the rest were even weaker.



What do you think?

[Tazzy1972]

LOCH / ROCH -

1. Quan Zhen
2. Beggar's Clan

HSDS -

1. Shao Lin
2. Wu Dang
3. Ming Cult

[Ken Cheng]

1. Shao Lin
2. Wu Dang
3. Ming Cult

When the Ming Cult is unified, it's probably stronger than any one of the Central Plains wulin's martial sects. The Ming Cult had an army; the other sects did not.

[PJ]

Are you sure Shaolin is more powerful than Ming Cult? Even at the lowest point of Ming Cult in HSDS, it required the combined forces of SIX orthodox schools to put up an assault against Ming Cult. This suggests that Ming Cult > Shaolin.

Not to mention, the overwhelming majority of top Ming Cult fighters didn't even contribute much to the defense (?). Only Yin Tianzheng was busy fighting the orthodox schools. Wei Yixiao, Yang Xiao, Zhou Dian etc were busy fighting each other (?), while Fan Yao, Xie Xun, and Purple Dragon Lord were nowhere to be found, and their greatest asset yet Zhang Wuji wasn't in the organization yet.

So if all of these top Ming Cult dogs would conjure, Ming Cult would probably slaughter any other organization.

What do y'all think?

[Ken Cheng]

Are you sure Shaolin is more powerful than Ming Cult? Even at the lowest point of Ming Cult in HSDS, it required the combined forces of SIX orthodox schools to put up an assault against Ming Cult. This suggests that Ming Cult > Shaolin.

Not to mention, the overwhelming majority of top Ming Cult fighters didn't even contribute much to the defense (?). Only Yin Tianzheng was busy fighting the orthodox schools. Wei Yixiao, Yang Xiao, Zhou Dian etc were busy fighting each other (?), while Fan Yao, Xie Xun, and Purple Dragon Lord were nowhere to be found, and their greatest asset yet Zhang Wuji wasn't in the organization yet.

So if all of these top Ming Cult dogs would conjure, Ming Cult would probably slaughter any other organization.

What do y'all think?

I think you're right. None of the six orthodox sects on its own could take on a unified Ming Cult, and even their combined strength was barely equal to the task.

The Ming Cult of an earlier era (pre-LOCH) even held the Sung army at bay, and its best martial artists were able to stalemate the man who invented the 9 Yum Jen Ging (Wong Seung).

[odbayarb2000]

ROCH

Beggar Clan
Quan Zhen Sect
Ancient Tomb Sect

Reason: Li Mou Chou ruins wulin at will. Double sword of Yang Guo and Xiao Long Nu tackles Golden Wheel Monk.

Other Candidates:

Duan Family - Yi Deng, Farmer, Fisher, Woodman, Scholar, Qiu Qianren, and Indian Monk

[smurf120]

For Duke of Mount Deer:

Society of Earth and Heaven
Divine Snake/Dragon Cult

I'm not sure if the following were formidable as it seems the brainpower of Hangxi and luck of Wei Xiao Bao owned them all:

Wu Sangui's army
Combined Mongo-Tibet forces
Taiwan rebels
Russia

[CC]

Are you sure Shaolin is more powerful than Ming Cult? Even at the lowest point of Ming Cult in HSDS, it required the combined forces of SIX orthodox schools to put up an assault against Ming Cult. This suggests that Ming Cult > Shaolin.

Not to mention, the overwhelming majority of top Ming Cult fighters didn't even contribute much to the defense (?). Only Yin Tianzheng was busy fighting the orthodox schools. Wei Yixiao, Yang Xiao, Zhou Dian etc were busy fighting each other (?), while Fan Yao, Xie Xun, and Purple Dragon Lord were nowhere to be found, and their greatest asset yet Zhang Wuji wasn't in the organization yet.

So if all of these top Ming Cult dogs would conjure, Ming Cult would probably slaughter any other organization.

What do y'all think?

Hmmm, Unified Ming Cult vs Unified Xiao Yao Pai and its subsidiaries.

Sounds like a real bloodbath.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Are you sure Shaolin is more powerful than Ming Cult? Even at the lowest point of Ming Cult in HSDS, it required the combined forces of SIX orthodox schools to put up an assault against Ming Cult. This suggests that Ming Cult > Shaolin.

Not to mention, the overwhelming majority of top Ming Cult fighters didn't even contribute much to the defense (?). Only Yin Tianzheng was busy fighting the orthodox schools. Wei Yixiao, Yang Xiao, Zhou Dian etc were busy fighting each other (?), while Fan Yao, Xie Xun, and Purple Dragon Lord were nowhere to be found, and their greatest asset yet Zhang Wuji wasn't in the organization yet.

So if all of these top Ming Cult dogs would conjure, Ming Cult would probably slaughter any other organization.

What do y'all think?

But people such as the three Du-level monks did not assist in the attack either, and they each should be worth at least two top Ming fighters a piece.

[Tazzy1972]

LOCH / ROCH -

1. Quan Zhen
2. Beggar's Clan

HSDS -

1. Shao Lin
2. Wu Dang
3. Ming Cult

sorry guys my lists are not in any order of merit

[Ken Cheng]

But people such as the three Du-level monks did not assist in the attack either, and they each should be worth at least two top Ming fighters a piece.

Shaolin had some fighters that were individually more powerful than the Ming Cult's best fighters, but Shaolin (and the orthodox sects) just weren't as deep as the Ming Cult as far as total resources were concerned. The Ming Cult was effectively an army; the orthodox sects were, individually, much less extensive organizations.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Ah, but an army without leaders is no army at all. As the saying goes, an army of sheep lead by a lion will defeat an army of lions led by a sheep. If Shaolin could crush the Ming leadership, what good would the army be?

However, if it was unified Persian Ming sect and Chinese Ming sect...then, I think, we really would have to call in Xiao Yao Sect.

[PJ]

But people such as the three Du-level monks did not assist in the attack either, and they each should be worth at least two top Ming fighters a piece.

3 Du Monks =~ Zhang Wuji.

Ming Cult still gains 5 additional top fighters: Wei, Xie, Yang, Fan, and Da.

[CC]

3 Du Monks =~ Zhang Wuji.

Ming Cult still gains 5 additional top fighters: Wei, Xie, Yang, Fan, and Da.

I would say, if Ming Cult gains their 5 fighters but the 6 Sects bring in the 3 Du Monks and Zhang Sanfeng, its not to the Ming Cult's advantage.

[PJ]

I would say, if Ming Cult gains their 5 fighters but the 6 Sects bring in the 3 Du Monks and Zhang Sanfeng, its not to the Ming Cult's advantage.

Well if it's Ming Cult vs ALL 6 orthodox schools, then Ming Cult would lose. But one on one, Ming Cult would still win.

[sarakoth]

XAJH/SPW

1 Sun Moon Cult
2 Shaolin
3 Wu dang

[K2Grey]

The Government.

[Ken Cheng]

The Government.

Depends on the government. The Northern Sung government was ineffective against the Ming Cult without Wong Seung's contribution, and the Yuan army of the HSDS era couldn't eradicate the Chinese wulin either.

[PJ]

Depends on the government. The Northern Sung government was ineffective against the Ming Cult without Wong Seung's contribution

Even with Huang Shang's help, the government still lost to Ming Cult big time

[Ren Ying Ying]

Depends on the government. The Northern Sung government was ineffective against the Ming Cult without Wong Seung's contribution, and the Yuan army of the HSDS era couldn't eradicate the Chinese wulin either.

but the chinese wulin wasn't exactly ONE organization...whereas the yuan army is ONE.

of course, then again, we'd have to wonder which point in the story we're looking at.