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Thread: Red Flower Society...a futile attempt?

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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Default Red Flower Society...a futile attempt?

    The Heaven and Earth Society might of stood a chance at reviving the Ming dynasty but by QianLong's reign, is the reviving of the Ming impossible? After experiencing the wonderful reign under emperors Kangxi and YongZheng, the country is already stabled and probably couldn't care less for the already long gone Ming dynasty. Was the Red Flower Society a futile attempt?

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    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Basically, it's almost impossible to cause do anything substantial without an army so yes, RFS was a futile attempt as was Heaven and Earth Society.
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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guo Xiang View Post
    Basically, it's almost impossible to cause do anything substantial without an army so yes, RFS was a futile attempt as was Heaven and Earth Society.
    I actually thought HES had a chance to get back at the Qings if they worked together with Taiwan and the Mu's. They also had Xiaobao as a "spy" at Kangxi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogeyman View Post
    I actually thought HES had a chance to get back at the Qings if they worked together with Taiwan and the Mu's. They also had Xiaobao as a "spy" at Kangxi.
    is Xiaobao not a fictional character created by Jin Yong?
    Anyway, rebellion will never work when the country is prosperious as most civilians are enjoying their daily life. During Kangxi, Yongzheng, and Qianlong, china is the richest and most powerful country in the world. The patriot han majority should thanks Heshen and Cixi dowager for the collapse of the Qing dynasty for their corruption and disastrous policies . Without the Qing, china is much smaller. China is much larger now than during the Ming dynasty but still alot smaller than during the qing dynasty. Overall, I would say the qing did more good than harm to china...

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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    is Xiaobao not a fictional character created by Jin Yong?
    Anyway, rebellion will never work when the country is prosperious as most civilians are enjoying their daily life. During Kangxi, Yongzheng, and Qianlong, china is the richest and most powerful country in the world. The patriot han majority should thanks Heshen and Cixi dowager for the collapse of the Qing dynasty for their corruption and disastrous policies . Without the Qing, china is much smaller. China is much larger now than during the Ming dynasty but still alot smaller than during the qing dynasty. Overall, I would say the qing did more good than harm to china...
    Xiaobao is a fictional character but HES and RFS are also fictional. Yes, rebellion doesn't work when the country is prosperous but during the ealier Kangxi reign there was still a LOT of Hans that didn't want to be ruled over by foreign tribes. Rebelling the Manchus during the early periods weren't hard. There was a lot more Hans than Manchus. Sheer manpower can win the empire back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    is Xiaobao not a fictional character created by Jin Yong?
    Anyway, rebellion will never work when the country is prosperious as most civilians are enjoying their daily life. During Kangxi, Yongzheng, and Qianlong, china is the richest and most powerful country in the world. The patriot han majority should thanks Heshen and Cixi dowager for the collapse of the Qing dynasty for their corruption and disastrous policies . Without the Qing, china is much smaller. China is much larger now than during the Ming dynasty but still alot smaller than during the qing dynasty. Overall, I would say the qing did more good than harm to china...
    Um, Red Flower Society, Heaven and Earth Society and Wei Xiao Bao are all created by Jin Yong and this is the wuxia FICTION forum, so of course the majority of the topic and discussion is about works of fiction. Your response is irrelevant because it leans more to the "realistic" part of a discussion, when this is based on fiction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suet Seung View Post
    Um, Red Flower Society, Heaven and Earth Society and Wei Xiao Bao are all created by Jin Yong and this is the wuxia FICTION forum, so of course the majority of the topic and discussion is about works of fiction. Your response is irrelevant.
    Well, Wai Siu Bo was definitely fictional, but the Red Flower and Heaven and Earth Societies were, I believe, to some extent real.

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    Red Flower society have a better chance than Earth and Heaven Society?

    I remember a passage during the story when CJL was showing off the soldiers are showing red handkerchief when he was confronting the emperor.

    H+S though never really have a substantial army base in mainland china, and there was the family feud in taiwan making it so hard for them ever to mount a cross-sea invasion.

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    Senior Member sarakoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Well, Wai Siu Bo was definitely fictional, but the Red Flower and Heaven and Earth Societies were, I believe, to some extent real.
    Wasn't the Heaven and Earth Society the precursor to the modern Triads?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarakoth View Post
    Wasn't the Heaven and Earth Society the precursor to the modern Triads?
    Yeah--a point I made in a separate thread (the one about modern-day jianghu). Heaven and Earth societies, which DID exist = tiandihui = precursors to the triads. In fact, I think "triad" connotes the trinity of Heaven, Earth, and man--again, strong connection to the tiandihui.
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    By the end of the novel, Chan Ga Lok had a choice whether or not to assassinate the emperor. If only...

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    Actually, if we go strictly by JY's novel, the Red Flower Society was really close to restoring Han rule in China. The plot in the beginning wasn't to overthrow the emperor but to use the fact that Qian Long was really Han by birth to convince him to reject Qing rule and simply re-establish the dynasty under Han rule, since he was already the emperor. When Chen Jialuo confronted Qian Long, Qian Long initially agreed to this too.
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