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Thread: The Ying Goo Affair: thoughts, theories, questions

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default The Ying Goo Affair: thoughts, theories, questions

    The Ying Goo Affair seems, at first glance, a personal and private affair among South Emperor Deun Chi Hing/1 Deng the Monk, Chow Bak Tung, and Ying Goo, but this apparently personal, private affair actually had far-reaching ramifications for wulin in general. Most obviously, it effectively removed South Emperor as a force in wulin. 1 Deng was alive throughout LOCH and ROCH, and his martial arts abilities were physically unimpaired, but barring his brief “comeback” at the end of ROCH to rescue Gwok Seung/defend Seung Yeung from the Mongols, South Emperor was effectively “dead” as a wulin entity during LOCH and ROCH. Imagine if the Ying Goo Affair had never happened: Deun Chi Hing would likely not have abdicated the Dali throne so soon, nor would he likely have withdrawn from wulin prematurely. Imagine another Great on the side of good (other than North Beggar Hung 7 Gung, who was rendered equally useless for a time after being injured by West Poison Au Yeung Fung) during LOCH and ROCH: the presence of an active South Emperor would have given the likes of Au Yeung Fung and Kau Cheen Yan something else to worry about.

    Now, a few questions/observations about the affair itself:

    1. Chow Bak Tung and Ying Goo were basically honest people, and it’s unlikely they would have kept their affair a secret for very long. Then again, they could have just kept quiet about it, couldn’t they? It’s not as if Deun Chi Hing caught the pair in bed together; (according to LOCH '82,) Prince Deun found them at a Buddhist temple – very innocuous by the looks of things. Had the couple chosen to keep their affair a secret, would Prince Deun ever have known? OK, the birth of Chow Lim Tung nine months later might have complicated things, but as Gei Hiu Fu in HSDS and others in wuxia fiction have proven, there are ways around that.

    2. Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung was the head of the wulin-renowned Cheun Jen Sect, meaning he must have had a reputation for enforcing the moral integrity of his followers. In the wake of Chow Bak Tung’s very severe infraction, however (violating the concubine of Wong Chung Yeung’s good friend, who happened to be the King of Dali to boot), Wong Chung Yeung surprisingly did not punish Chow Bak Tung at all! There was no death penalty, no punitive maiming or flogging, no banishment from the Cheun Jen Sect…I don’t think Wong Chung Yeung so much as yelled at Chow Bak Tung for what Chow had done. Isn’t this uncharacteristically and dubiously indulgent and tolerant of Wong Chung Yeung?

    3. Ying Goo was very unhappy in Dali in the aftermath of the affair. She wanted to seek out Chow Bak Tung. Prince Deun, for his part, even allowed her to do so if she so wished. So why didn’t she? It’s not as if she didn’t know where to find him: Chow Bak Tung was, at that point, still a Cheun Jen Sect Taoist. He could be found at Chung Yeung Temple at Mt. Chung Nam. It didn’t occur to her until years later to go looking for him, by which time Chow was stuck on Peach Blossom Island, and Ying Goo had to obsessively study mathematics to find a way to get through or around the Peach Blossom Formation and rescue him.

    Just some thoughts on the Ying Goo Affair.

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    TVB, Ken (sorry we have to keep saying that).

    In the actual novel, it wasn't Emperor Duan who found out; it was Wang Chongyang. He was furious about it, and actually tied up Zhou Botong and took him before Emperor Duan and asked Emperor Duan to punish him. Duan, going by the Wulin (and extremely sexist) rules of brotherhood, in which women are like clothes, to be put on or taken off easily, forgave Zhou Botong, untied him, and offered Ying Gu to him.

    Zhou Botong, however, refused and instead asked Emperor Duan to punish him, because if he had 'known it was wrong, he wouldn't have done it, but since he did something wrong, he should be punished' (and also because he could tell that Emperor Duan was actually deeply in love with Ying Gu). Emperor Duan refused to punish him, and Zhou Botong ran away, ashamed.

    Ying Gu did not chase after Zhou Botong because it wasn't her place to; she was the Emperor's concubine, and had already grievously wounded/offended both the Emperor and propriety by having an affair with ZBT. It wasn't until her child died, due to the Emperor refusing to save him, that she no longer cared and ran after ZBT.

    As to the impact...I'm not sure. Arguably, he would've been too busy running the kingdom to really constrain OYF and QQR.
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    Senior Member dewyloony123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    TVB, Ken (sorry we have to keep saying that).
    No we're not--remember that poll? :P

    j/k, j/k.

    As to the impact...I'm not sure. Arguably, he would've been too busy running the kingdom to really constrain OYF and QQR.
    Agreed, but didn't Qiu Chuji say make a comment about that when he was evaluating the 4 surviving Greats? (This was during GJ's identity crisis stage) Something like YD was in the position to do great things for humanity because he has the righteous/benevolent spirit as well as ability to effect change, but chose not to (and we know why...). By contrast, H7G is the only true hero amongst the 4 surviving Greats of the 1st Mt Wah tournament because he actually works to make the world a better place.
    Last edited by dewyloony123; 01-09-08 at 06:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    TVB, Ken (sorry we have to keep saying that).

    In the actual novel, it wasn't Emperor Duan who found out; it was Wang Chongyang. He was furious about it, and actually tied up Zhou Botong and took him before Emperor Duan and asked Emperor Duan to punish him. Duan, going by the Wulin (and extremely sexist) rules of brotherhood, in which women are like clothes, to be put on or taken off easily, forgave Zhou Botong, untied him, and offered Ying Gu to him.

    Zhou Botong, however, refused and instead asked Emperor Duan to punish him, because if he had 'known it was wrong, he wouldn't have done it, but since he did something wrong, he should be punished' (and also because he could tell that Emperor Duan was actually deeply in love with Ying Gu). Emperor Duan refused to punish him, and Zhou Botong ran away, ashamed.

    Ying Gu did not chase after Zhou Botong because it wasn't her place to; she was the Emperor's concubine, and had already grievously wounded/offended both the Emperor and propriety by having an affair with ZBT. It wasn't until her child died, due to the Emperor refusing to save him, that she no longer cared and ran after ZBT.

    As to the impact...I'm not sure. Arguably, he would've been too busy running the kingdom to really constrain OYF and QQR.

    what he said

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    Regarding the affair between Chow Ba Tung and Ying Goo, if I remember correctly, they had sexual encounter only one time in the temple. I wonder why it's so easy for Ying Goo to get pregnant by Chow Ba Tung but not by the southern emperor Deun Chi Hing who was her husband for years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Regarding the affair between Chow Ba Tung and Ying Goo, if I remember correctly, they had sexual encounter only one time in the temple. I wonder why it's so easy for Ying Goo to get pregnant by Chow Ba Tung but not by the southern emperor Deun Chi Hing who was her husband for years.
    Yidang was only married to Ying Gu for a couple of years, and in that time he didn't spend all that much time with her. He had lots of consorts, and the reason she had the affair was because she was feeling neglected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToastedRossi View Post
    Yidang was only married to Ying Gu for a couple of years, and in that time he didn't spend all that much time with her. He had lots of consorts, and the reason she had the affair was because she was feeling neglected.
    Even if this is the case, they were together for a couple of years compare to one time with Chow Ba Tung. The chance of Ying Goo got pregnant by Deun Chi Hing would be much much higher than with Chow Ba Tung. The situation is still possible but highly unlikely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Even if this is the case, they were together for a couple of years compare to one time with Chow Ba Tung. The chance of Ying Goo got pregnant by Deun Chi Hing would be much much higher than with Chow Ba Tung. The situation is still possible but highly unlikely.
    Chow's little swimmers were saving their energy for years while Deun Chi Hing spread himself thin?
    Last edited by Linda; 11-09-15 at 08:53 PM.
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