Ding Pang - a difficult protagonist with whom to sympathize?

[Ken Cheng]

Among Gu Long's protagonists, Ding Pang of FULL MOON, CRESCENT SABRE might be one of the most difficult to sympathize with. Despite the high level of martial arts he achieved, the guy was kind of an idiot, and made one bad choice after another.

First, he got totally played by Lau Yerk Chung and Lau's wife. We can kind of forgive him this one because he was young, naive, and inexperienced, although it was still a kind of bonehead move that only a rookie would make. Getting beyond that, however, consider this:

1. He was kindly adopted by Ching Ching and her grandparents, who welcomed him into their lives and treated him as one of their own...the only condition being that he cut his ties with the outside world and remain in hiding with them. He even got Ching Ching's hand in marriage, the famous "Listening To the Spring Rain One Evening at the Little Pavilion" Crescent Sabre, and the inner power of Ching Ching's grandfather so he could wield the Crescent Sabre at its full potential. He agreed to this...saying that he was sick of the hypocrisy of the outside world and didn't mind living in seclusion.

2. So what does he do a few years later? He gets bored, starts thinking about revenge, and then finally goes back on his word, leaves the sanctuary, and re-enters wulin. Even after having gotten his revenge on Lau Yerk Chung, that wasn't enough: he had to go challenge "3rd Young Master" Tse Hiu Fung and cause a ruckus in wulin.

3. Partly because of his indiscretions, he wasn't there when Ching Ching's sect came under attack by their enemies. Their most powerful weapon, the Crescent Sabre, wasn't available to them for their own defense...causing the sect to finally fall.

In light of all this, it's hard to sympathize with Ding Pang as a protagonist. Has any other wuxia protagonist so completely brought ruin upon his family, friends, and allies?

[Candide]

Can't blame him for #2, Ken. He's a young guy with a pair of balls firmly attached who wants to LIVE and EXPLORE the world, and not be locked in a bloody cave with a nagging wife and two old fossils. As for his challenging other folks, hell if I get that powerful, I'll be kicking arses just for...kicks.

#3 is more like a tough tittie case. Bad luck.

[Ken Cheng]

Can't blame him for #2, Ken. He's a young guy with a pair of balls firmly attached who wants to LIVE and EXPLORE the world, and not be locked in a bloody cave with a nagging wife and two old fossils. As for his challenging other folks, hell if I get that powerful, I'll be kicking arses just for...kicks.

I don't fault him for having that impulse, but he did make a commitment to these people. If he wasn't going to be able to keep it, he should never have made the commitment. He left them high and dry after they'd given everything to him, which doesn't seem particularly honorable or heroic.

[Guo Xiang]

I don't fault him for having that impulse, but he did make a commitment to these people. If he wasn't going to be able to keep it, he should never have made the commitment. He left them high and dry after they'd given everything to him, which doesn't seem particularly honorable or heroic.

He did make a commitment, but you have to step in his shoes a little. That guy THOUGHT he could do it which in the end, he realises that he couldn't, resulting in his leaving.

Surely there must be once or twice in your lifetime when you once thought you could do something, commits yourself to it but then find that you were totally wrong.

There are only two choices in this:
1) Stick with your original choice. Go on with it even if it depresses you alot.
2) Make yourself happy.

Ding Pang made choice no2, which isn't all that bad. If he sticks on despite being unhappy, sooner or later life will become worse than death for him.

What's really bad about it are the consequences of his decision, that's all.

[CC]

He did make a commitment, but you have to step in his shoes a little. That guy THOUGHT he could do it which in the end, he realises that he couldn't, resulting in his leaving.

Surely there must be once or twice in your lifetime when you once thought you could do something, commits yourself to it but then find that you were totally wrong.

There are only two choices in this:
1) Stick with your original choice. Go on with it even if it depresses you alot.
2) Make yourself happy.

Ding Pang made choice no2, which isn't all that bad. If he sticks on despite being unhappy, sooner or later life will become worse than death for him.

What's really bad about it are the consequences of his decision, that's all.

Well, if you cannot honour your contract, then at the very least you should _return_ the consideration which you received for the deal. Namely - The internal energy and the sabre.

[Guo Xiang]

Well, if you cannot honour your contract, then at the very least you should _return_ the consideration which you received for the deal. Namely - The internal energy and the sabre.

I suppose you are right, but mankind is generally selfish. If he couldn't leave the sabre behind, what more his internal energy.

[CC]

I suppose you are right, but mankind is generally selfish. If he couldn't leave the sabre behind, what more his internal energy.

Exactly - Selfish. Which is why Mr Cheng is quite right in calling him a punk.

[kyss of the sword]

did ding pang freak out and cut his ties with the sect after finding out it was the devil(flock) island? like in the series. did he leave them to save his reputation?

[Suet Seung]

Can anyone answer kyss of the sword's question above?

[Zhuge Liang]

Can't blame him for #2, Ken. He's a young guy with a pair of balls firmly attached who wants to LIVE and EXPLORE the world, and not be locked in a bloody cave with a nagging wife and two old fossils. As for his challenging other folks, hell if I get that powerful, I'll be kicking arses just for...kicks.

#3 is more like a tough tittie case. Bad luck.

Wow every time i come visit here i am reminded of your often hilarious & entertaining yet spot on posts.

[Ken Cheng]

We've been discussing tragic wuxia heroes lately, so I've decided to revive this thread to consider one of Gu Long's: Ding Pang was a tragic hero. His ambition and pride brought ruin to his benefactors, who also became his family.

[minutemanwayne]

He was certainly a selfish individual who wanted power fame and money. It wasn't until the end with which he finally amended his ways and decided to live a peaceful life with his wife.

[Trien Chieu]

He was certainly a selfish individual who wanted power fame and money. It wasn't until the end with which he finally amended his ways and decided to live a peaceful life with his wife.

If I remember correctly, Ching Ching was killed by Ding Pang as he thought she was her evil father. Ding Pang had a final battle with her father and they both disappeared. Ding Pang was a bad dude as he stole another guy lover. Ding Pang was portrayed by Louis Kuo, Ching Ching was portrayed by Noel Leung.

[Ian Liew]

If I remember correctly, Ching Ching was killed by Ding Pang as he thought she was her evil father. Ding Pang had a final battle with her father and they both disappeared. Ding Pang was a bad dude as he stole another guy lover. Ding Pang was portrayed by Louis Kuo, Ching Ching was portrayed by Noel Leung.

That's from the horrible 90s TVB adaptation. I don't think the novel was quite like that. Some day I should go and watch Damian Lau's version - that one might be more accurate, I think.

[Ken Cheng]

That's from the horrible 90s TVB adaptation. I don't think the novel was quite like that. Some day I should go and watch Damian Lau's version - that one might be more accurate, I think.

As a general rule, 1970s TVB wuxia adaptations tend to be more accurate than their later counterparts, but even given this general rule-of-thumb, the situation varies from adaptation to adaptation. TigerWong once wrote that GOD OF SABRE (the Damian Lau TVB adaptation of Ding Pang's story) had a bleaker ending than the original novel did.

[Ian Liew]

As a general rule, 1970s TVB wuxia adaptations tend to be more accurate than their later counterparts, but even given this general rule-of-thumb, the situation varies from adaptation to adaptation. TigerWong once wrote that GOD OF SABRE (the Damian Lau TVB adaptation of Ding Pang's story) had a bleaker ending than the original novel did.

I've never watched the Damian version - while I really want to, I'm not a fan of sad endings.

The Opening theme (probably won't be there long before TVB pull it down)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYauM9btu4g

A little montage of the characters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_YHeT9OyOI

That montage looks particularly great - so many of my favourite artistes, and they all look so good. It looks like a really good serial.

[tape]

As a general rule, 1970s TVB wuxia adaptations tend to be more accurate than their later counterparts, but even given this general rule-of-thumb, the situation varies from adaptation to adaptation. TigerWong once wrote that GOD OF SABRE (the Damian Lau TVB adaptation of Ding Pang's story) had a bleaker ending than the original novel did.

It's kind of strange how TVB randomly decides to butcher certain series. LOCH/ROCH/XAJH/DGSD of the 90's were probably as or more accurate than the previous ones, but then you have things like HSDS '00 and Flying Fox. I feel like every Gu Long adaption after the 70's is pretty far from the novels too.

[Ian Liew]

It's kind of strange how TVB randomly decides to butcher certain series. LOCH/ROCH/XAJH/DGSD of the 90's were probably as or more accurate than the previous ones, but then you have things like HSDS '00 and Flying Fox. I feel like every Gu Long adaption after the 70's is pretty far from the novels too.

HSDS wasn't that inaccurate plot-wise, although they added some silly filler in there. Crimson Sabre was completely butchered, though - although it was nice seeing lots of Kong Wah and Melissa Ng. Even in the 80s Linked Cities and Ode to Gallantry were butchered (not that the other 80s productions bar Duke of Mount Deer, Flying Fox and HSDS were particularly novel-accurate, of course, but these two sticked out as being particularly irreverent). Ode to Gallantry has always been butchered as far as I know, though - maybe the original ending just didn't transfer well from the pages of a novel to the TV screen.

[tape]

HSDS wasn't that inaccurate plot-wise, although they added some silly filler in there. Crimson Sabre was completely butchered, though - although it was nice seeing lots of Kong Wah and Melissa Ng. Even in the 80s Linked Cities and Ode to Gallantry were butchered (not that the other 80s productions bar Duke of Mount Deer, Flying Fox and HSDS were particularly novel-accurate, of course, but these two sticked out as being particularly irreverent). Ode to Gallantry has always been butchered as far as I know, though - maybe the original ending just didn't transfer well from the pages of a novel to the TV screen.

I guess the filler stuff made it feel really inaccurate, with so much plot time given to the Yin Liting/Yang Buihui/Yang Xiao arc and the extra Zhao Min stuff with the other Mongolian prince. Other things that were annoying I remember is the Wudang heroes getting controlled by voodoo to attack Wuji and Yang Xiao powering up to beat off the Xuan Ming elders by himself after they kill Fan Yao. Some minor stuff, but it irked me for some reason. They did add a lot of stuff that was in the novel that HSDS missed though, so I guess it gets some points for that.

The 80's Ode to Gallantry did not feel like a JY story at all, though I guess the actual novel was not really up to par with his other great works either.

[Doc Kwok]

HSDS wasn't that inaccurate plot-wise, although they added some silly filler in there. Crimson Sabre was completely butchered, though - although it was nice seeing lots of Kong Wah and Melissa Ng. Even in the 80s Linked Cities and Ode to Gallantry were butchered (not that the other 80s productions bar Duke of Mount Deer, Flying Fox and HSDS were particularly novel-accurate, of course, but these two sticked out as being particularly irreverent). Ode to Gallantry has always been butchered as far as I know, though - maybe the original ending just didn't transfer well from the pages of a novel to the TV screen.

I think part of the reason for the butchering is the desire to end with a 'big boss fight'. e.g.

• In Ode to Gallantry, Shi Potian never got to really use his newly learnt arts, so they had Bei Haishi step in as the big boss.
• In Duke of Mount Deer, Wei Xiaobao basically just up and left, so the adaptations tend to end with a punch-up between him and Kangxi instead.
• In Smiling, Proud Wanderer, the big bad Ren Woxing just dropped dead by himself, so in the 80s, they had the other big bad Yue Buqun step in for the final fight, while in the 90s, RWX managed to survive long enough to have a final fight.
• In Demigods & Semidevils, the novel ended shortly after Xiaofeng forced a promise from the Khitan emperor and committed suicide after a mass melee against 'mere' soldiers, so the 80s version had Morong Bo step up as a single powerful 'final boss'.

A lot of the time though, it seems more like they changed it just because they could. Even when the overall direction of the story is correct (e.g. LOCH 82 and ROCH 83), the actual details tend to be heavily modified or even reversed outright for no apparent reason, amidst tons of filler. Maybe they were intended more for people who had already read the novel, and so they played around with the story - 'what if it happened this way instead'?.