Which hero has the best teachers in the trilogy?

[QF]

I'm sure he didn't master it to the extent of Eastern Heretic, just like Yang Guo couldn't have mastered Toad Stances to the extent of Western Venom.

Agreed..

I think Peach Blossom kung fu is unsuitable for Guo Jing. I doubt he would ever be able to master it to the extent that Huang Yaoshi did.

I agree. His specialty is still Dragon Palm. But I was just trying to show that RYY that GJ did learn Peach Blossom Martial Arts.

[CFT]

Correction: the Chinese text does not say he mastered it. It just said he has learned it.

Not merely learned it though - he learned it completely. Also coupled with his vast inner energy the effects of the technique in his hands (or rather fingers!) could not be ignored.

We can quibble about his mastery TZST but many would dream of achieving his level of "learnedness".

[Ren Ying Ying]

Gee, I wonder what this means 這門功夫是黃藥師的絕學，郭靖

在島上住了幾年，已盡得其傳，他內力深厚，使將出來自是非同小可。


This martial art(Tan Zhi Shen Tong) is Huang Yao Shi's kung fu, Guo Jing learned this kung fu and mastered when he was in Peach Blossom Island. (CHap. 3 of return of hte condor heroes)

I said, "GJ did not learn ALL of HYS's arts" (at least there is no evidence of that). there are much more to peach blossom islands martial arts than the tan zhi shen tong.

[QF]

I said, "GJ did not learn ALL of HYS's arts" (at least there is no evidence of that). there are much more to peach blossom islands martial arts than the tan zhi shen tong.

Do you read my other quotes that i provided?

I'll put it up again...

郭靖說道：「我所學的武功很雜，除了江南七俠所授的根基之外，全真派的內功，

桃花島和丐幫東南兩大宗的武功，都曾練過一些。

Does Peach Blossom Island = HYS's art?

[Ren Ying Ying]

Do you read my other quotes that i provided?

I'll put it up again...





Does Peach Blossom Island = HYS's art?

does beggar clan only have XL18Z? as I recall, dog beating stick is also a beggar clan art and GJ for certain did not learn that one. GJ said he had practiced arts from both peach island and beggar clan, but he did not practice "ALL" the arts from both sects/clans.

so back to my initial point, GJ learning tan zhi shen tong does NOT = learning ALL of HYS's arts

not to mention he specifically said he learned "some (一些)" not "all"

[QF]

does beggar clan only have XL18Z? as I recall, dog beating stick is also a beggar clan art and GJ for certain did not learn that one. GJ said he had practiced arts from both peach island and beggar clan, but he did not practice "ALL" the arts from both sects/clans.

so back to my initial point, GJ learning tan zhi shen tong does NOT = learning ALL of HYS's arts

not to mention he specifically said he learned "some (一些)" not "all"

好男不與女鬥

HAHHAHA

[Dennis Chen]

Not to mention that Guo Jing isn't smart enough to learn some Peach Blossom Arts.

[Ren Ying Ying]

好男不與女鬥

HAHHAHA

chey, blame urself for initiating the argument

[QF]

Not to mention that Guo Jing isn't smart enough to learn some Peach Blossom Arts.

You're right...GJ is sooooo dumb...he's such a dumb ***! Finger Flicking Kung fu is not in any way shape or form a Peach Blossom Island Art...

好男不與蠢才鬥

chey, blame urself for initiating the argument

Yea...I"m stuck at work with nothing to do...

You made me laugh!

[Ren Ying Ying]

You're right...GJ is sooooo dumb...he's such a dumb ***! Finger Flicking Kung fu is not in any way shape or form a Peach Blossom Island Art...

!

once again, he said "SOME Peach Island Arts", not "ALL Peach Island Arts"

with all that time to spare, you should read carefully next time

[Ken Cheng]

once again, he said "SOME Peach Island Arts", not "ALL Peach Island Arts"

In any case, Mighty Finger Snap was East Heretic Wong Yerk See's most prized martial art...regarded as his signature skill. If the point is that Gwok Jing is capable of learning only simple, sh*t kung fu, then the point isn't being made.

[Bai Qi44]

all you need is a manuel like 9 ying/yang so you don't have to be smart as YG

Really? Then, HR should be a greats' level fighter. She must be cause she had full access of 9 Yin. It was also stated that her inner power increased tremendously because of 9 Yin. She must be as powerful as her husband, the greats and YG then.

Oh wait....

[Dennis Chen]

I was just think... HYS's martial arts is good, however, if you're not smart enough, you wouldn't be able to learn it. A good creator would make something that anybody could use with the most minimal amount of sacrifice (Quai Hua Bao Dian required a person to castrate themselves, which is really, really bad).

[Ken Cheng]

I was just think... HYS's martial arts is good, however, if you're not smart enough, you wouldn't be able to learn it. A good creator would make something that anybody could use with the most minimal amount of sacrifice (Quai Hua Bao Dian required a person to castrate themselves, which is really, really bad).

In wuxia, there seem to be few (if any) martial arts that are both dominantly powerful *and* user-friendly at the same time. Every martial art capable of being considered among the elite in wulin is also supremely difficult to learn or master for one reason or another.

[Bai Qi44]

IQ is important for the process of learning. what you make out of it afterwards is another thing. put it this way, the highest scorers on tests are not always the smartest. as the old saying goes, 30% intelligence, 70% diligence. GJ may have only 15% or lower for the intelligence, but he puts in 120% effort for diligence . HR on the other hand may have 120% intelligence, but perhaps only puts in 1% work (don't take the numbers literally).

What makes you think GJ's "IQ in martial arts" is dumb? There's plenty of evidence suggesting that he's quite "smart" when it comes to learning martial arts. He might be a dumb person, but as a martial arts expert, he's quite smart. HR does not have the talent to be a great. Her IQ had little to do with it. Her
"martial arts IQ" had more to do with it. She had full access to what the greats were battling for in the first Hua Shan tournament. It was even stated that her inner power was increased tremendously because of it. Yet, you think she's anywhere near a great? I don't care how many times JY states GJ would have to work 10 times harder than everyone else, but when JY makes GJ learn martial arts super fast, then he's just contradicting himself.

the 7 freak's methods may not be right, but GJ's rate of learning is also very slow. take the child GJ for example. when zhu cong taught 3 stances to both GJ and tuolei, the latter was able to learn the skills much faster. and don't use culture/language as a barrier. tuolei is not chinese and zhu cong is not mongolian.

What made you assumed that I would use a language barrier as my rebuttal? What I will use is this. Well, GJ as a kid did not have the "martial arts IQ" yet. Some people just peak later (same concept as a lot of sports athletes). Of course, compare the adult GJ to the adult Tuolei and you'll get the complete opposites in martial arts learning.

GJ did not learn all of HYS's arts nor 1 yang finger.

Ok, I remembered wrong about 1 Yang Zhi, but it was said in ROCH that GJ learned Peach Blossom Island kung fu ( I remember it being all, but I can be wrong here too, but that's besides what we're arguing about so I'll just leave this).

also, the so-called "feats" may be impressive, and whether or not they can make the average fighter seem better or worse than top fighters is really up to your own opinion. but top fighters are "top fighters" because "JY said so" (or else who are we to judge who is better or worse?). thus, i would take his words for as they are.

JY said so doesn't mean squat to me if he later wrote something to contradict it. The icy bed in Gu Moe was said to increase inner power of the person sleeping on it an by an x amount. XNL having slept on it for (can't remember how many years, but I know it was long) would then therefore have pretty high inner power. But then JY states on many occasions that XNL's inner power was relatively weak. How is that possible? So, you see, you can't take things literally just cause JY said it cause JY will write something later (or before) to contradict it. What matters more is not what the narrator states, but what actually happens (i.e. fights between two fighters).

lastly, there is a difference between being slow and being mentally retarded. GJ is a bit slow compared to the average (in JY cannon), but he is not retarded. understanding martial arts is not necesarily analogous to understanding abstract physics (where you cannot comprehend it unless you have the brain for it, no matter how hard you work or how long you try). the wu brothers managed to learn the complex arts of 1 yang finger, and their comprehension was mentioned not to be very high (but they lacked 9 yin/great teachers, & diligence--the wonderous "fairy godmothers" of GJ). even the not hard working and not so intelligent xu zhu managed to learn xiao wu xiang gong. hence, GJ will take longer than your average joe to learn and comprehend, but with the time and effort, he can understand and learn it.

Yes, there is a difference being slow and mentally retarded, but what does that have to do with our argument? GJ isn't slow when it comes to understanding martial arts concepts. He might not be able to explain it or even realize how he understands it, but it doesn't mean he's slow at learning it. Can you please explain to me how it took GJ so long to learn the 1st of the 18 dragon palms, yet the rest were so much easier for him? And can you please explain how he was able to learn so many top martial arts styles for a dimwit like him? Even if he works non-stop everyday, he wouldn't reach that kind of level by the age of 33.

that's because either tom, dick & harry weren't lucky enough to stumble upon them, or they were killed/robbed before they get a chance to learn the manuals.

Tell that to HR and please don't use the lazy excuse cause she had 13 years on the island to learn it. As well, even if she is lazy, her IQ alone (going by your logic) plus the 13 years on the island (even if she only uses 10% of the 13 years) should make her much more powerful than the likes of Gong Suen Zhi, Ni Moxing, Wun Hak Sai, etc... oh wait....

Edit - Anyway, I don't have the time and energy to debate anymore. Plus, I've lost a lot of interest in wuxia in these last several years. I guess I'll just use QF's 好男不與女鬥 and end it at that.

[Ren Ying Ying]

In any case, Mighty Finger Snap was East Heretic Wong Yerk See's most prized martial art...regarded as his signature skill. If the point is that Gwok Jing is capable of learning only simple, sh*t kung fu, then the point isn't being made.

did i ever regard 9 yin as a shit kung fu? i don't think u understood my point

[Ken Cheng]

Edit - Anyway, I don't have the time and energy to debate anymore. Plus, I've lost a lot of interest in wuxia in these last several years. I guess I'll just use QF's 好男不與女鬥 and end it at that.

Pffft...Jason, you would leave me to finish this alone.

[Ken Cheng]

did i ever regard 9 yin as a shit kung fu? i don't think u understood my point

Your point, apparently, was that Gwok Jing didn't have the acumen to learn anything as complex as East Heretic's martial arts (and set aside the "some/all" argument; this is East Heretic - the man didn't DO simple), but if Gwok Jing could handle the 9 Yum Jen Ging, he can handle East Heretic's canon. It probably won't come easily to him and it likely won't suit him as well as Hong Lung 18 Palms, but he can hack it.

[Exodus]

GJ in ROCH didn't really have to learn any new arts and it shouldn't be a problem for him anyway because of his vast inner power ala ZWJ

[Ren Ying Ying]

What makes you think GJ's "IQ in martial arts" is dumb? There's plenty of evidence suggesting that he's quite "smart" when it comes to learning martial arts. He might be a dumb person, but as a martial arts expert, he's quite smart. HR does not have the talent to be a great. Her IQ had little to do with it. Her "martial arts IQ" had more to do with it. She had full access to what the greats were battling for in the first Hua Shan tournament. It was even stated that her inner power was increased tremendously because of it. Yet, you think she's anywhere near a great? I don't care how many times JY states GJ would have to work 10 times harder than everyone else, but when JY makes GJ learn martial arts super fast, then he's just contradicting himself.

did i just waste my minutes writing a few paragraphs explaining why "martial arts IQ" is not the only factor invovled in determining martial arts level or did you just not bother to read? like i said previously, the old saying goes 30% intelligence, 70% diligence. HR's intelligence is not enough to cover her lack of dedication and diligence, while GJ's diligence was able to make up for his lack of intelligence. even with the brain and luck of YG, he needed a certain amount of diligence (though not GJ level diligence).

What made you assumed that I would use a language barrier as my rebuttal? What I will use is this. Well, GJ as a kid did not have the "martial arts IQ" yet. Some people just peak later (same concept as a lot of sports athletes). Of course, compare the adult GJ to the adult Tuolei and you'll get the complete opposites in martial arts learning.

you are comparing adult GJ and adult Tuolei? Show me an instance where GJ was able to learn the same martial arts skill faster than Tuolei. None! (of course it's impossible to find one because we never get to see Tuolei learning martial arts after the age of 10). So, who are you even comparing GJ to? Who else was learning 9 yin slower than GJ? XL18Z slower than GJ? None...because you don't see anyone else with diligence like GJ and encounters like GJ. HR doesn't count because she puts in shit effort. The wu bros don't count because they are just as dumb and they are not as diligent (and they got a shitty teacher on top of that). YLQ doesn't count because there's no evidence of him learning 9 yin.

JY said so doesn't mean squat to me if he later wrote something to contradict it. The icy bed in Gu Moe was said to increase inner power of the person sleeping on it an by an x amount. XNL having slept on it for (can't remember how many years, but I know it was long) would then therefore have pretty high inner power. But then JY states on many occasions that XNL's inner power was relatively weak. How is that possible? So, you see, you can't take things literally just cause JY said it cause JY will write something later (or before) to contradict it. What matters more is not what the narrator states, but what actually happens (i.e. fights between two fighters).

for one, it was XLN herself who said that her teacher said the icy bed can increase inner power, not exactly JY's direct words. unlike the comments on GJ, which were directly from JY himself. Not to mention the countless occasions in which he mentions GJ's talent not being very high. To top that off, every time GJ does something unexpected, JY makes the effort to justify the action...with none of them being "GJ has martial arts talent" (save being able to sleep well, thus able to improve faster than normal in QZ internal energy).

Yes, there is a difference being slow and mentally retarded, but what does that have to do with our argument? GJ isn't slow when it comes to understanding martial arts concepts. He might not be able to explain it or even realize how he understands it, but it doesn't mean he's slow at learning it. Can you please explain to me how it took GJ so long to learn the 1st of the 18 dragon palms, yet the rest were so much easier for him? And can you please explain how he was able to learn so many top martial arts styles for a dimwit like him? Even if he works non-stop everyday, he wouldn't reach that kind of level by the age of 33.

once again, how would you know if he's slow or not when it comes to understanding martial arts? who are you comparing him to? JY does explain that if one had been exposed to higher martial arts concepts, then learning the lower ones will be easier. Perhaps learning the first stance of XL18Z will allow insight to the rest of the palms, and the more you learn, the more insight u gain, thus the faster rate of learning (must my speculations)

and once again, how would you know one can't reach that kind of level by 33? who are you comparing him to? is there someone in a similar situation and could not reach the same level at age 33?

put it this way, it takes GJ a month to learn XL18Z and HR a few hours to learn Dog Beating Stick. it took YG a night to learn HYS's finger flicking & jade flute skill. compare that. of course, we are comparing GJ with the extremes, which by comparison makes him look like shit. but i would suppose in reality that he's probably around average, not mentally retarded.

Tell that to HR and please don't use the lazy excuse cause she had 13 years on the island to learn it. As well, even if she is lazy, her IQ alone (going by your logic) plus the 13 years on the island (even if she only uses 10% of the 13 years) should make her much more powerful than the likes of Gong Suen Zhi, Ni Moxing, Wun Hak Sai, etc... oh wait....

firstly, where do you get the idea that 10% of the 13 years would make her much more powerful than GSZ, NMX, etc? secondly, how do you know how much she practiced in the 13 years?

Edit - Anyway, I don't have the time and energy to debate anymore. Plus, I've lost a lot of interest in wuxia in these last several years. I guess I'll just use QF's 好男不與女鬥 and end it at that.

i suppose it's my fault for typing ahead of reading everything. since i already spent the time, i might as well post it