Internal Power...how does it work?

[PJ]

Internal strength, internal power, internal energy, are all referring to the same thing.
At least, I use them interchangeably.

[Tom]

It is a common practice for real-life martial arts exponents to train their internal energy/strength by practicing ‘Nei Gong’ ( 内功 ) to increase their internal strength and ‘Qi Gong’ ( 气功 ) to refine their internal energy.

Note the bolded texts. To increase their strength...doesn't that sound like it'll make the energy stronger?

[PJ]

Note the bolded texts. To increase their strength...doesn't that sound like it'll make the energy stronger?

Nope......... it just means increase the abundance of internal energy.

[Tom]

I don't think Internal Strength (NEI LI) and Internal Energy (NEI QI) are the same thing. NEI LI is like describing how strong the energy is and NEI QI is the energy. Get what I mean?

Anyways, below is an "unified grand theory" of how Internal Power/Energy/Strenth/Qi/Etc. works based on our discussion so far.

1) It is the source of power for palms, fists, kicks, and all other attacks.

2) When someone cultivates, that someone is building the abundance of the energy in their body. Cultivation also enlarges the dantian (the energy storage area) and widens the meridians in their bodies so that the energy can flow more freely, hence making it more effective.

3) Internal Energy does not have a difference. No matter how much you cultivate it is still the same old energy.

4) Once the energy is attained, it will be easy to replenish even after it is used.

[PJ]

I don't think Internal Strength (NEI LI) and Internal Energy (NEI QI) are the same thing. NEI LI is like describing how strong the energy is and NEI QI is the energy. Get what I mean?

I don't see the term NEIQI used much... most of the time it's either NEILI or NEIGONG. They're used interchangeably by Jin Yong.

[Tom]

I don't see the term NEIQI used much... most of the time it's either NEILI or NEIGONG. They're used interchangeably by Jin Yong.

Hmm...

I still have an explanation even IF energy doesn't have difference between strength levels. When one cultivates then he/she will get more energy. Even if the dantian gets enlarges and the meridians widen, it will soon run out of space. So what happens? The energy starts dense up and compact. It will produce the same effect of having "stronger" energy. What do you think of this?

[AnhHung]

Hmm...

I still have an explanation even IF energy doesn't have difference between strength levels. When one cultivates then he/she will get more energy. Even if the dantian gets enlarges and the meridians widen, it will soon run out of space. So what happens? The energy starts dense up and compact. It will produce the same effect of having "stronger" energy. What do you think of this?

What do you mean run out of space? Internal power is an abstract concept and does not require space. It is not a physical object, although in wuxia it can cause physical damage.

[Tom]

What do you mean run out of space? Internal power is an abstract concept and does not require space. It is not a physical object, although in wuxia it can cause physical damage.

No, you're wrong. Internal Energy does require space. That's why IT REQUIRES A DANTIAN TO STORE IT. Duh?

[AnhHung]

Internal power, as we know it, is an abstract concept conceived in the context of wuxia. Yes dantian is required, but again it is make believe and doesnt necessary comply with real life physics.

If we go by your logic, then people with alot of internal power have large dantien and large belly then. I wonder how big XZ is then, like a hot air ballon?

Remember this is wuxia. It has its own rules and natural laws. Everything we compare it with in the real life is just an comparion.

[CFT]

No, you're wrong. Internal Energy does require space. That's why IT REQUIRES A DANTIAN TO STORE IT. Duh?

No need to insult. Professional athletes have larger hearts and lungs - the body expands/grows. You're not limited by space, the body adapts. Also, I'm not sure that the dantien is actually a physical organ like the heart, lungs, kidneys, etc. It seems to be more a confluence of the ren and du channels (mai).

[Tom]

Now that you guys mentioned it, I don't think dantian is an organ anymore.

Internal energy is not magic. The real life energy we use today is stored in cells. Fictional internal energy is stored throughout the body. The dantian is just a place where it's usually gathered, I believe.

[Tom]

Another evidence that internal energy does have "strength" differences. Please note the bold parts.

Chapter 7 of XAJH

Staring at the pieces of broken sword, Linghu Chong gasped with astonishment. Master-Wife must have thrust the sword out with her whole might, otherwise, without the full strength of her inner energy, the sword thrust would not have had such extraordinary speed. As soon as the sword tip reached the skin, she immediately retracted the vigorous inner energy and changed the direction of the strength from horizontal to vertical, and the great shock from the inner energy strength broke the long sword into inch-long pieces. The superb inner energy manipulation had really reached the level of perfection. In great admiration, he said, “Even if Tian Boguang’s knife chops were faster, he still would not have escaped this thrust of yours, Master-Wife.”

[PJ]

Another evidence that internal energy does have "strength" differences. Please note the bold parts.

Chapter 7 of XAJH

Strength = energy = power.

the full strength of her inner energy = 100% of her internal energy.

[Ren Wo Xing]

What PJ said. The 'strength' difference is the abundance difference/power difference.

[Tom]

Strength = energy = power.

That's too broad of a statement as of now. We have to gather more evidence from now on to find out EXACTLY HOW internal power works. This is killing me.

BTW PJ, I found something that you would like. Look at how Jin Yong described Madam Yue.

The superb inner energy manipulation had really reached the level of perfection.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Bogeyman, PJ's post was in reference to the quote, not intended as an all-purposes general statement.

Your problem is that you are trying to find textual, linguistic evidence, which is based on a translation, which in turn is based on something which is not set in stone; as PJ mentioned earlier, terms like neili, neigong, and neiqi (pretty rare) are often used somewhat interchangeably. It's like trying to discover the properties of a certain color of light by viewing a cloth-covered kaleidoscope.

Anyhow, in this case, I think it's been made pretty plain that there is no 'strength' of internal energy, and wherever there is a reference to the 'strength' of internal energy, it really means abundance and/or delivery power.

[Tom]

I don't get how internal energy could get more refined and pure but can't get "stronger". I guess it's the term Nei li (internal strength) that's making me think that internal energy has differences in power.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Well...think of it like water (which neili is often compared to). You can have water which is pure (bottled water vs tap water), you can have water which is more abundant (a lake compared to a well), you can have water which is more forceful (ocean waves vs a calm pool)...but it's still water. If, in fact, it were possible for water to become more 'dense', it would have to undergo an atomic change and would then no longer be water!

[Wu Wudi]

Strength = energy = power.

the full strength of her inner energy = 100% of her internal energy.

JY seems to have thought that physical strength and internal power are two different qualities although that distinction has never been made clear.

[Tom]

you can have water which is more forceful (ocean waves vs a calm pool)

Does that mean that the forceful water > calm pool? I was thinking about "stronger" energy again when I read this part. I just can't stop thinking that energy does have a difference. There's a saying in a lot of TV series: Nei Li Jing Ren (or something along those lines since I don't know Mandarin too well.) It basically means [Your] Internal strength is shocking! What do you think of this term?