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Thread: Internal Power...how does it work?

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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Default Internal Power...how does it work?

    Some of you might think I'm a noob to ask this question but recently an idea aroused in my mind. How does internal power cultivate and decrease? Is internal power the energy or is it different and separate?

    Example: H7G and OYF fight at Mt. Hua for a whole day. Did they use up all their internal power and will need to re-cultivate it all back OR will they gain it all back in a day of rest?

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    Senior Member dewyloony123's Avatar
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    is this related to this discussion?
    http://spcnet.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=22430
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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dewyloony123 View Post
    is this related to this discussion?
    http://spcnet.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=22430
    Sort of but not exactly. I think I did bad at phrasing my question. This topic is really, really hard for me to put into words. Can you guys just answer my question about the H7G-OYF situation first?

    H7G and OYF fight at Mt. Hua for a whole day. They use up all their energy and are completely exausted. Did they use up all their internal power and will need to re-cultivate it all back for the next dozen of years OR will they gain it all back in a day of rest?

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    Senior Member kwekmh's Avatar
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    I believe it depends on how severely they depleted their energy. If nothing serious happens to them like having a serious internal injury from the fight, I believe they should be able to replenish their internal energy in a couple of days at most.

    If they suffer any internal injuries during the fight, I believe without any special formula or medicine months or even years would be needed for them to gain back their lost energy.

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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    I've been thinking for the past 3 years that internal power is cultivated and it determines the power of one's energy. And one's energy is what's used to fight. It can be replenished in a matter of hours to days.

    But now an idea erupted in my mind that the internal power cultivated is actually the "energy" and is used to fight. So it's like: exhausts a day's worth of cultivated power, cultivate a day, use another day's worth of power, cultivate again, repeat.

    What do you guys think?

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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogeyman View Post
    I've been thinking for the past 3 years that internal power is cultivated and it determines the power of one's energy. And one's energy is what's used to fight. It can be replenished in a matter of hours to days.

    But now an idea erupted in my mind that the internal power cultivated is actually the "energy" and is used to fight. So it's like: exhausts a day's worth of cultivated power, cultivate a day, use another day's worth of power, cultivate again, repeat.

    What do you guys think?
    To put this in another way...do you guys think internal power work like:

    Hong 7 Gong 8/10 (internal power level) and is at 100% energy before the fight. After the fight he is still 8/10 but he is now down to 5% because he is exhausted.

    OR

    Hong 7 Gong is at 8/10 before the fight. After the fight he is now at 3/10.


    What do you guys think? This is so mind boggling...

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    Senior Member kamii's Avatar
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    I have also always wondered about this. Whether the cultivating they did increased their internal energy capacity, or was it the actual power in which they used during a fight.....

    definitely confusing....
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    Internal cultivation should increase the storage capacity (dantien) as well as the ability to channel it (meridians etc). There are other factors like purity of the internal which are mentioned but I don't think is really explicitly developed in the novels.

    So, in battle or healing, one diminishes the store of energy but not the capacity for accumulating it. Depending on the expenditure it could takes anywhere from hours to yours to get back to 100%.

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    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    increased capacity so they can store more energy and generate more output.

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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogeyman View Post
    To put this in another way...do you guys think internal power work like:

    Hong 7 Gong 8/10 (internal power level) and is at 100% energy before the fight. After the fight he is still 8/10 but he is now down to 5% because he is exhausted.

    OR

    Hong 7 Gong is at 8/10 before the fight. After the fight he is now at 3/10.


    What do you guys think? This is so mind boggling...
    So which of these two would you guys pick?

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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Well since nobody is posting their opinions on this...I guess I'll start off with my theory. I believe that internal power works like the first case I posted:

    Hong 7 Gong 8/10 (internal power level) and is at 100% energy before the fight. After the fight he is still 8/10 but he is now down to 5% because he is exhausted.


    Reasons? Here they are:

    1) If it was the second example then it'd be amazingly hard to cultivate energy if the person gets into fights constantly (for example: the heroes of the story!)

    2) If cultivating only adds onto the capacity of energy collected then what explains the strength of one's attack (knocking people backwards in a palm clash, etc.)? So I think cultivating adds onto the power of a person's energy AND the size of the dantian where the energy is stored.

    3) In addition to what I said in #2, I'd like to add that I think the power of a person's internal energy stays the same unless affected otherwise (poison, got hurt, etc.). Only the amount of energy should be dropping (say from 100% at the beginning to 5% after fighting for a day).

    Share your opinions on my theory?

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    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    My humble theory:

    Imagen internal power as a container of water. Each person has a container. When its full then you have 100% energy amount. After a fight, you reduce your amount accordingly.

    Energy cultivation does two things; putting water back to the container and/or increasing the amount you can contain.

    E.x. Let say a person with 100% is containing 100 litres. He increases his capacity with 50 litres. He has then 66% amount, but his powers are exactly the same.

    1 litre is always equal to 1 litre.

    This basic theory is general for all. But there are a few other factors as well. A simple internal power skill will be slower to put back water and increasing the container than a more advance skill, such as 9 Yang. But a person with 100% 100 litres of simple skill is equal to a person with 100% 100 litres of advance skill. Although it has taken the person with 9 Yang less time to get to that amount.

    Another factor is the skill of generating output. The two forementioned persons with equal amount of powers would generate different amount of output. If the person with the simplier skill have a better technique of generating output, then he would win. Think of it as a water fight between a squirt gun and a water hose. The person with the squirt gun will get wetter, even if he has more water. Reminds me of the exchange of palms between ZWJ and old hag of Emei. ZWJ has more 'water', but couldnt generate enough output because lack of skill, so he got pwnd.

    Purity of power is like purity of water. The purier the water, the more you could make use of it. Pure drinking water will go unfiltered when generating output, but unpure water has to through a filter first. This will reduce the amount and affect the output.

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    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    YG could generate alot of output that could overwhelm even great level fighters just look what happend to GWM

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    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    GWM is squirting with a water pistol.
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    AnhHung,

    So based on your theory, it would include elements of examples 1 and 2. I would like to know what you think about the two words "neili". What do you think it means? It literally means internal strength. I agree with your theory but based on these two words, I'd like to add one more idea:

    The more cultivation, the stronger the general energy (qi) gets.

    Do you agree?

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    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogeyman View Post
    AnhHung,

    So based on your theory, it would include elements of examples 1 and 2. I would like to know what you think about the two words "neili". What do you think it means? It literally means internal strength. I agree with your theory but based on these two words, I'd like to add one more idea:

    The more cultivation, the stronger the general energy (qi) gets.

    Do you agree?
    As I see it, there is no strong energy or weak energy. Energy cultivation does not make the energy stronger per se, but increases the amount stored or enhance the flow of energy (generating better output).

    The key in palms and fist MA is to blast an amount of energy fast. The faster, the greater effect. The same amount over a greater time will not have the same affect and are use during healing.

    Im no expert in chinese medicine or MA, so 'neili' or 'neigong' or 'qi' does not really say anything to me. As I understand it, they all refer to the 'water container', at least in the wuxia realm.
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

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    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    GJ had the 'Silent dragon palm' which were a regular dragon palm performed slowly. The effect was that it was weaker.

    Although, he was poisened at that time. I dont know if used the silent palm again when he was fully aware and if it had the same weaker effect.
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

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    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    maybe more concentrated energy like more refined I don't know

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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    I don't really know...

    Although your theory has its points, I still hold my ground. If it's really a water container then how is it possible to cultivate to the next level if a person fights everyday (i.e. main characters!)?

    Well...here's my revised theory. It includes some elements that you have included in yours.

    1) The Internal System is separated into 2 parts; internal power (determines the strength of the energy) and dantian (the storage of the energy).

    2) Cultivating increases the strength of one person's energy and increases the size of the dantian (storage) of that one person.

    3) The dantian should be able to replenish one person's energy pretty fast, which explains why our main characters get into fights so often and are not tired out all the time.

    4) The power of one's energy (neili) stays at the level at which cultivated unless otherwise (i.e. poison, injuries, etc.).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogeyman View Post
    Well...here's my revised theory. It includes some elements that you have included in yours.

    1) The Internal System is separated into 2 parts; internal power (determines the strength of the energy) and dantian (the storage of the energy).

    2) Cultivating increases the strength of one person's energy and increases the size of the dantian (storage) of that one person.

    3) The dantian should be able to replenish one person's energy pretty fast, which explains why our main characters get into fights so often and are not tired out all the time.

    4) The power of one's energy (neili) stays at the level at which cultivated unless otherwise (i.e. poison, injuries, etc.).
    Hmmm, not sure I would agree with your "strength of the energy".

    I think a period of internal energy cultivation can do 1 of 4 things:

    1) Increase the capacity (level jumping in the secret manual )
    2) Replenish the internal energy in the container (dantien)
    3) Refine the internal energy in the container, maybe even the container itself(?)
    4) A combination of (1)+(2), (1)+(3)

    I think the "strength" of the internal energy, i.e. what observable physical effects are down to having a large store of it in the first place and how quickly/effectively it can be released, as AnhHung has described.

    ZWJ had a big store of energy but couldn't release it early in the novel. Similarly DY and XZ in DGSD had great stores of energy (by fortune) but no means of competently using it until later in the novel.

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