A new x VS y situations

[PJ]

In Jin Yong universe, Chinese martial arts are better than foreign martial arts.

As well, orthodox arts are better than unorthodox arts.

Chinese and orthodox arts are safer, more pure, and more refined.
Whereas, foreign and unorthodox arts are more dangerous, less pure, and less refined.

So then, I ask yee, is it better to have an unorthodox Chinese kung fu, or an orthodox foreign kung fu?

Well, usually foreign kung fu is automatically considered unorthodox, but not necessarily all of them. For example, Jiumozhi's Flaming Blade Palm could possibly be orthodox. Anyway, let's assume that foreign arts can be orthodox.

[ChronoReverse]

I'd vote Orthodox over Chinese in that case.

[sarakoth]

In Jin Yong universe, Chinese martial arts are better than foreign martial arts.

As well, orthodox arts are better than unorthodox arts.

Chinese and orthodox arts are safer, more pure, and more refined.
Whereas, foreign and unorthodox arts are more dangerous, less pure, and less refined.

So then, I ask yee, is it better to have an unorthodox Chinese kung fu, or an orthodox foreign kung fu?

Well, usually foreign kung fu is automatically considered unorthodox, but not necessarily all of them. For example, Jiumozhi's Flaming Blade Palm could possibly be orthodox. Anyway, let's assume that foreign arts can be orthodox.

Would Shaolin's 72 Supreme Arts be considered foreign since they were invented by Damou himself? It always made me wonder why the martial arts left in India were so crappy if the nation produced a man who not only mastered but invented the 72 Supreme Arts.

[The Khan]

The 72 arts were not all made by Da Mo. A vast majority were created by subsequent monks who had nothing better to do at the temple

[CC]

Is the Dragon Elephant Prana considered foreign? Its pretty orthodox.

Yijinjing is orthodox and foreign.

And Yoga was depicted as pretty powerful too.

[shenlong]

Sunflower would be Chinese? We don't know the heritage of the creator and it would definitely be unorthodox.

[shortsight]

Would Shaolin's 72 Supreme Arts be considered foreign since they were invented by Damou himself? It always made me wonder why the martial arts left in India were so crappy if the nation produced a man who not only mastered but invented the 72 Supreme Arts.

I thought when Damo went to Shaolin, he wasn't as profound as he was known to be. He then medidated in one of the caves in Shaolin for some 9 years or so, and got enlightenment of some sort. His invention of part of the 72 supreme arts should be after his meditation?

[Wellesley]

Ouyang Feng's martial arts might be labeled unorthodox but it is on par with any trilogy greats' martial arts. Huang Yaoshi's martial arts could be considered unorthodox as well. And DG9J is as unorthodox as it comes despite being extremely potent in the right hands.

I think there are more elite orthodox martial arts than elite unorthodox ones, but their individual quality is comparable.

[Ren Ying Ying]

would xiao yao arts be considered orthodoxed? since they are taoist-based...

[AnhHung]

BMZC (? spelling), sucking other peoples internal power is not xia and therefore unorthodox. Not sure about the other MA of xiao yao pai.

[Ren Ying Ying]

BMZC (? spelling), sucking other peoples internal power is not xia and therefore unorthodox. Not sure about the other MA of xiao yao pai.

in that case, HYS's martial arts doesn't harm anyone...so why would it be considered unorthodoxed?

or the more global question is...what exactly is orthodoxed/unorthodoxed?

[PJ]

Ouyang Feng's martial arts might be labeled unorthodox but it is on par with any trilogy greats' martial arts.

Power-wise, Toad Stance is very good, but the quality that makes it unorthodox is the danger involved in learning. Recall that Ouyang Feng refused to teach it to his son Ouyang Ke due to fear of killing him. He taught it to Yang Guo after he went crazy and did not remember how dangerous the art is.

Some arts like Energy-Dissipating Technique are outright unorthodox. Huang Yaoshi is in the gray area IMO.

[AnhHung]

Are Peach blossom MA unorthodoxed? My impression is that wulin consider HYS as unorthodoxed, not his MA.

[K2Grey]

I remember some kind of listing of qualities that someone made about whether or not any given kung fu was 'evil' or not.

Possible characteristics were:

User can't control themselves easily (Holy Fire Art)
Physical disfigurement
Use of poison
You can't only subdue the opponent, you have to kill or grievously injure him
Destroying opponents inner power
Very dangerous to oneself

Of course when people are talking about whats orthodox or not it seems like whenever they lose they claim that the opponent is using unorthodox techniques. Like when ZWJ was owning the 6 sects with Qiankun Danuoyi.

[shenlong]

Would 6MSJ be considered orthodox or unorthodox?

[PJ]

Would 6MSJ be considered orthodox or unorthodox?

Unorthodox. See criteria #1 - User can't control themselves easily

[Tom]

Unorthodox. See criteria #1 - User can't control themselves easily

I thought it was only Duan Yu who couldn't control his 6MSJ.

Hmm...I guess Seven Injury Fist is unorthodox...

[ChronoReverse]

I'm not sure it's unorthodox because of that. 6MSJ is perfectly controllable provided you have the prerequisites: 1YZ and a high internal energy base.

HL18P is certainly orthodox yet we see that Beggar Clan leader in HSDS cripple himself learning it because his internal energy wasn't sufficient.

So a caveat should be added to the characteristics that the martial art in question must be trained in the proper manner. With this in place, HL18P, 7 Damages Fist and 6MSJ become orthodox (which they should be since they belong to the Beggar Clan, Kunlun Clan, and the Dali royalty).

[PJ]

逍遥派武功本是天下第一等的功夫，但若内力失制，在周身百骇游走冲突，却又宣泄不出，这散功时的痛苦实非言 语所能形容。

From this description, I think Xiaoyao Pai's martial arts are unorthodox, b/c it borders these criteria of unorthodoxity:

-User can't control themselves easily
-Very dangerous to oneself

[sarakoth]

What about Sweeper's uberness? His MA is like the epitome of orthodox. Wasn't that reflected in his lecture to Xiao and Murong?