Is Sunflower Manual or old clothing of monk stronger?

[CFT]

Seems like the physical moves of Bixie jianfa are ordinary in the extreme, with the power & speed coming from the neigong. There should be no reason why YBQ and LPZ cannot use other sword arts to express the physical moves. But from FQY's assessment of LHC when they first met, his lack of spontaneity and adaptation was down to his teacher YBQ. The Qi faction seems to frown upon "change" as heretical. So no surprise the YBQ was rigidly following the 72 moves of Bixie.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

LPZ was about to marry YLS, so if he was smart enough he could have wait for YBQ to depart his huashan martials art to him. YLS is YBQ only daughter so by common sense he would treat him as a family member.

Unlikely as YBQ had already tried to kill LPZ and so was unlikely to let him live due to some sentiment towards his daughter for when his family did die he showed no emotions. Even if by some miracle LPZ did survive and inherited the arts of Mount Hua, he would need to practice it for 20+ years to even stand a chance of avenging his parents. He might as well wait for his enemies to die of old age.

If I were LPZ, I would search all the caves in the mountains. Eventually I would find all the great martial arts like 9-yin, 9-yang, dugu 9 sword . If I were him, I would never learn Bixie myself, I would make thousand of copies and speed them throughout wulin.

Not sure what you base the above on. If every random cave contained some lost art then there would be Great Level fighters everywhere. What is the point of making copies of Bixie?

Without Sunflower, DFBB was an intelligent man. He would be way more powerful, not by martial at but by intelligence. Without sunflower, RWX would not have a chance of coming back. DFBB would kill him and RYY. Without Bixie, YBQ would be a respectable man in wulin, a great teacher and a happy family. Without Bixie, LPZ would be a happy family man with a beautiful wife Lingshan. Sunflower/Bixie destroyed the life of 3 men.

DFBB's ambitions would unlikely be restricted to the Sun/Moon cult. In all likelihood he would have made a bid for ultimate power in Wulin like RWX and ZLS did. In fact the Sunflower may have helped avoid such a conflict as it curbed his ambitions.

YBQ was always petty, selfish and only appeared outwardly respectable. Bixie did not turn him evil, it just gave him the means to achieve his ambitions.

LPZ was a tragic figure, but it was his need for vengeance that drove him over the edge. He could have led a happy life if he could let go of his vengeance. Like YBQ, Bixie only gave him the means to achieve his goal.

These men were destroyed by themselves not by Sunflower/Bixie. Remember over 100 people died directly due to 9 Yin. Do you consider 9 Yin evil?

[Trien Chieu]

Unlikely as YBQ had already tried to kill LPZ and so was unlikely to let him live due to some sentiment towards his daughter for when his family did die he showed no emotions. Even if by some miracle LPZ did survive and inherited the arts of Mount Hua, he would need to practice it for 20+ years to even stand a chance of avenging his parents. He might as well wait for his enemies to die of old age.

YBQ accepted the marriage so at this point he no longer suspect of LPZ. If LPZ didn't castrate himself, he will eventually become the leader of Mount Hua. Yes, the martial art from Mount Hua required a lot of time to practice so he need to wait for a long time for revenge. If his enemies died of old age, he can always go after their descendants.

Not sure what you base the above on. If every random cave contained some lost art then there would be Great Level fighters everywhere. What is the point of making copies of Bixie?

The vast vast majority of the caves are emptied but if he has the patient, he will eventually find the ones with great martial art just like many other wuxia heroes found. Well, if he made thousand of copies of Bixie and spread them in wulin, bixie would no longer valuable and no one would fight over it. YBQ's plan would fail.

DFBB's ambitions would unlikely be restricted to the Sun/Moon cult. In all likelihood he would have made a bid for ultimate power in Wulin like RWX and ZLS did. In fact the Sunflower may have helped avoid such a conflict as it curbed his ambitions.

How do you know?

YBQ was always petty, selfish and only appeared outwardly respectable. Bixie did not turn him evil, it just gave him the means to achieve his ambitions.

If Sunflower made DFBB became less ambitious like you claimed, how comes it doesn't work on YBQ?

LPZ was a tragic figure, but it was his need for vengeance that drove him over the edge. He could have led a happy life if he could let go of his vengeance. Like YBQ, Bixie only gave him the means to achieve his goal.

LPZ is an idiot for learning Bixie. He could have a great life with YLS but threw it all away.

These men were destroyed by themselves not by Sunflower/Bixie. Remember over 100 people died directly due to 9 Yin. Do you consider 9 Yin evil?

Well, these guys learned Bixie and the 100 people die directly due to 9 Yin didn't even have a chance to learn 9 Yin.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

YBQ accepted the marriage so at this point he no longer suspect of LPZ. If LPZ didn't castrate himself, he will eventually become the leader of Mount Hua. Yes, the martial art from Mount Hua required a lot of time to practice so he need to wait for a long time for revenge. If his enemies died of old age, he can always go after their descendants.

So you are happy to kill innocent people just to satisfy revenge?

The vast vast majority of the caves are emptied but if he has the patient, he will eventually find the ones with great martial art just like many other wuxia heroes found. Well, if he made thousand of copies of Bixie and spread them in wulin, bixie would no longer valuable and no one would fight over it. YBQ's plan would fail.

Yes 'heroes'. LPZ is not that. He is a character and a tragic one at that.

The value of Bixie was never the issue. If it became less valuable then people like YBQ would just find something else to fight over.

How do you know?

DFBB had clawed his way to be second in command of the Sun/Moon sect but still usurped RWX, showing his ambitions and lust for power. Only after he started studying Bixie did his ambitions die down.

If Sunflower made DFBB became less ambitious like you claimed, how comes it doesn't work on YBQ?

Time of study. DFBB had it for years YBQ a few months.

Well, these guys learned Bixie and the 100 people die directly due to 9 Yin didn't even have a chance to learn 9 Yin.

Yet Lin Yuantu studied the art and did not turn evil. Only logical conclusion is that the art itself is not evil but the individual was.

[tape]

You're arguing with someone whose plan is to patiently search caves for lost kungfu manuals...

[MrWErD]

Well, if the cave searching thing doesn't pan out, he could always just buy the top martial arts manual from a wandering beggar for 10$.

[Trien Chieu]

So you are happy to kill innocent people just to satisfy revenge?

No, but it was how things work in the ancient days. In LPZ case, it is acceptable as his entire family wasn't murder by 1 person but by the entire sect. Wasn't Yu Canghai children also involve?

Yes 'heroes'. LPZ is not that. He is a character and a tragic one at that.

The value of Bixie was never the issue. If it became less valuable then people like YBQ would just find something else to fight over.

DFBB had clawed his way to be second in command of the Sun/Moon sect but still usurped RWX, showing his ambitions and lust for power. Only after he started studying Bixie did his ambitions die down.

Time of study. DFBB had it for years YBQ a few months.

Yet Lin Yuantu studied the art and did not turn evil. Only logical conclusion is that the art itself is not evil but the individual was.

Perhaps you are right, but the trade off is not worth it. I rather be dead instead of making such sacrifice. For LPZ, he should marry YLS and focus on martial arts from Mount Hua. Spreading the garbage Bixie throughout wulin and let other losers to practice it.

[Doc Kwok]

No, but it was how things work in the ancient days. In LPZ case, it is acceptable as his entire family wasn't murder by 1 person but by the entire sect. Wasn't Yu Canghai children also involve

No - it was done by Yu Canghai and a handful of his senior students. The one son that was present was killed by LPZ.

Perhaps you are right, but the trade off is not worth it. I rather be dead instead of making such sacrifice. For LPZ, he should marry YLS and focus on martial arts from Mount Hua. Spreading the garbage Bixie throughout wulin and let other losers to practice it.

You are not LPZ, with his entire family wiped out and his only hope of any form of justice riding on whether he makes the sacrifice, so of course your priorities would be different.

Even assuming that YBQ does not kill him at the first opportunity (unlikely), continuing to pursue Huashan martial arts would do little to help him with his revenge. The best level he could hope to achieve in the short-term would be that of pre-DG9G Linghu Chong, who was by far the best of his generation (and even attaining that was unlikely, given his late start and lack of talent), and in the long-term YBQ's pre-Bixie level (also unlikely, for the same reason). Even if he reaches YBQ's level, by that time YCH would either have advanced to another level (since in Wuxia, one's MA advancement does not seem to be hampered by age) or dead of old age, and his students will have advanced to something like YCH's original level. Given that his revenge would not be a one-to-one affair, and YBQ was only somewhat better than YCH, this would make it impossible for him to have his revenge.

As for spreading Bixie, do you really want to build up a gang of crazed castrati with the ability to toy around with you at whim?!?

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

No, but it was how things work in the ancient days. In LPZ case, it is acceptable as his entire family wasn't murder by 1 person but by the entire sect. Wasn't Yu Canghai children also involve?

Just his son and LPZ killed him anyway. Yet you had previously used modern morals and standards to judge other characters and races. Why should LPZ be any different.

Perhaps you are right, but the trade off is not worth it. I rather be dead instead of making such sacrifice. For LPZ, he should marry YLS and focus on martial arts from Mount Hua. Spreading the garbage Bixie throughout wulin and let other losers to practice it.

That is you personal preference, for others the ends always justify the means. If he had spread Bixie around Wulin do you really think YBQ would not put two and two together and continue to let LPZ live.

[Dirt]

Yet Lin Yuantu studied the art and did not turn evil. Only logical conclusion is that the art itself is not evil but the individual was.

"There's been an awakening."

"Have you felt it?"

"The dark side"

"and"

"The light."

[Trien Chieu]

Just his son and LPZ killed him anyway. Yet you had previously used modern morals and standards to judge other characters and races. Why should LPZ be any different.

That is you personal preference, for others the ends always justify the means. If he had spread Bixie around Wulin do you really think YBQ would not put two and two together and continue to let LPZ live.

I thought the whole family/sect of Yu Canghai was involved in the massacre of the Lin family. The ones that involved deserved to die, and the ones has nothing to do with it should be spare.

Regarding spreading of Bixie, LPZ should not do it right away. He should marry Lingshan first and focus on Mount Hua martial art for a few years then spread the Bixie all over wulin and see how many idiots would make sacrifice to learn it.

[Dirt]

Luke: Vader... Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
Luke: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?
Yoda: You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, NEVER for attack.