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Thread: Was Yeung Ding Tin strong?

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    Senior Member aniking_8's Avatar
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    Default Was Yeung Ding Tin strong?

    Yeung Ding Tin is previous Ming Cult leader and taught some of martial art to his left hand man but was he strong? He was able to defeat younger Xing Crun and blind one of the 3 elder monk.

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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    He mastered up to the 3rd or 4th level of Qian Kun Danuo Yi so I'm assuming he's pretty strong. Maybe LOCH-Great level?

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    Senior Member aniking_8's Avatar
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    Berfore he master QKDNY he must leaen some other skills b/c with only stage 4 of QQDNY is a lot weaker then ZWJ complete QKDNY and 9Yang.

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    YDT was probably above the strongest of the duan generation monks. he may have been the second strongest in wulin after ZSF. he died not because he was not capable of mastering QKDNY but because he was disturbed at the time he was practising his skills and fire deviated. at the time of his death, it could be esimated that he was around the age of the LOCH greats at the time of the 1st huashan tournament and he had a similar achievement in martial arts. if he had lived till the fight at bright peak, he might have reached the great's level at the end of LOCH, with some twenty years more of practise.

    yang xiao had learnt QKDNY to the second level and as each level is significantly more difficult to master and that much more powerful, YDT should be more then double YX's level at the time of his death.
    Last edited by kyss of the sword; 02-28-08 at 01:40 AM.
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    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyss of the sword View Post
    YDT was probably above the strongest of the duan generation monks. he may have been the second strongest in wulin after ZSF. he died not because he was not capable of mastering QKDNY but because he was disturbed at the time he was practising his skills and fire deviated. at the time of his death, it could be esimated that he was around the age of the LOCH greats at the time of the 1st huashan tournament and he had a similar achievement in martial arts. if he had lived till the fight at bright peak, he might have reached the great's level at the end of LOCH, with some twenty years more of practise.

    yang xiao had learnt QKDNY to the second level and as each level is significantly more difficult to master and that much more powerful, YDT should be more then double YX's level at the time of his death.

    thats interesting, cuz i dont think ZWJ is two times YX's level (or just) and ZWJ just qualified to be around ROCH great level and above that of LOCH's great.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    I think you underestimated Zhang Wuji.
    ZHang Wuji is about 6 to 7 times more powerful than Yang Xiao.

    Proof: 2 Yang Xiao's were barely a match for a Du-generation monk, and 3 Du generation monks were barely a match for Zhang Wuji.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    I think you underestimated Zhang Wuji.
    ZHang Wuji is about 6 to 7 times more powerful than Yang Xiao.

    Proof: 2 Yang Xiao's were barely a match for a Du-generation monk, and 3 Du generation monks were barely a match for Zhang Wuji.
    they were more than a match for ZWJ in fact they would be able to defeat him if the battle had continued

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    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    I think you underestimated Zhang Wuji.
    ZHang Wuji is about 6 to 7 times more powerful than Yang Xiao.

    Proof: 2 Yang Xiao's were barely a match for a Du-generation monk, and 3 Du generation monks were barely a match for Zhang Wuji.

    i was under the impression that Yang Xiao could fight about an equal match with Miejue, and Meijue could fight one of the Xanming Elders (she got hurt cuz she only regained 60% or so and she was distracted). And both XuanMing Elders could roughly fight with ZWJ, although not quite. So i would think Yang Xiao is equal or slightly less than one of the XuanMing and thus ZWJ= two and a bit YX.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    they were more than a match for ZWJ in fact they would be able to defeat him if the battle had continued
    Not true. The last time (3rd time) they fought, It was stated that Zhang Wuji would win eventually due to his superior 9 Yang internal energy.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Not true. The last time (3rd time) they fought, It was stated that Zhang Wuji would win eventually due to his superior 9 Yang internal energy.
    Makes you wonder why Cheung Mo Gei allowed his grandfather to join in and get himself killed. Maybe it would have been an insult to the old man to tell him to sit the battle out, but Cheung Mo Gei set this situation up in the first place by calling up help he apparently didn't need and ultimately, didn't help him much anyway.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Makes you wonder why Cheung Mo Gei allowed his grandfather to join in and get himself killed. Maybe it would have been an insult to the old man to tell him to sit the battle out, but Cheung Mo Gei set this situation up in the first place by calling up help he apparently didn't need and ultimately, didn't help him much anyway.
    By having Yang Xiao and Yin Tianzheng occupy one of the Du-generation monks, Zhang Wuji would finish the other 2 Du monks faster. However, Yin Tianzheng was about to be crushed by Dunan. It became an issue of who would go down first, Dujie or Yin Tianzheng. Zhang Wuji did not want to risk his grandfather, so he called off the fight. Turns out Yin Tianzheng died anyway, unfortunately.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Not true. The last time (3rd time) they fought, It was stated that Zhang Wuji would win eventually due to his superior 9 Yang internal energy.

    if it really is so then ZWJ is more stupid than I thought just letting his grandfather die in the process.

    ZWJ should be able to defeat the 3 du monks as should all the ROCH greats but ZWJ just can't do it

  13. #13
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    if it really is so then ZWJ is more stupid than I thought just letting his grandfather die in the process.

    ZWJ should be able to defeat the 3 du monks as should all the ROCH greats but ZWJ just can't do it
    He didn't let his grandfather die. His grandfather let himself die.

    And if you read what I wrote above, the reason he let Yin Tianzheng and Yang Xiao take one of the Du-generation monks was so that he could defeat the other 2 Du monks faster. But because the two experts from Ming Cult were not a match yet for Dunan, he had to stop the fight because he could defeat the other 2 Du monks. Which really shows how weak the 6 lords from Ming Cult are compared to the Du-generation monks.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    i was under the impression that Yang Xiao could fight about an equal match with Miejue
    That's correct.

    and Meijue could fight one of the Xanming Elders (she got hurt cuz she only regained 60% or so and she was distracted).
    She gained more than 60%. Maybe she only had 60% when she started fighting, but she was gaining back her power rapidly as the fight progressed. Also, she was not distracted whereas He Biweng was. The novel said that He Biweng had many more disadvantages than Miejue. So the reason they fought to a draw was mostly circumstantial. In a fair fight, Miejue would lose.

    And both XuanMing Elders could roughly fight with ZWJ, although not quite.
    This is definitely a stretch. In chapter 26, Zhang Wuji almost killed them both in under 30 stances, and Wuji was being kind (as usual), otherwise they might not have lived that day. Here is a quote from that excerpt: 玄冥二老是赵敏手下顶儿尖儿的能人,岂知不出三十招,便各受伤。

    So 1 Xuanming Elder = 25% of Zhang Wuji at the most.,
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    This is definitely a stretch. In chapter 26, Zhang Wuji almost killed them both in under 30 stances, and Wuji was being kind (as usual), otherwise they might not have lived that day. Here is a quote from that excerpt: 玄冥二老是赵敏手下顶儿尖儿的能人,岂知不出三十招,便各受伤。

    So 1 Xuanming Elder = 25% of Zhang Wuji at the most.,
    They did manage to injure him when they caught him off-guard following Cheung Mo Gei's glorious take-down of Ah Dai, Ah 2, and Ah 3. What happened? Shouldn't Cheung Mo Gei's 9 Yeung autoshield have taken over and protected him from the blow?

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    They did manage to injure him when they caught him off-guard following Cheung Mo Gei's glorious take-down of Ah Dai, Ah 2, and Ah 3. What happened? Shouldn't Cheung Mo Gei's 9 Yeung autoshield have taken over and protected him from the blow?
    This is one of the reasons I don't think 9 Yang's auto-protect really lives up to its claim of automatism after all.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    This is one of the reasons I don't think 9 Yang's auto-protect really lives up to its claim of automatism after all.
    It failed Cheung Mo Gei four times during HSDS.

    1. When Chow Chi Yerk injured him with the Heaven Sword (granted: the 9 Yeung autoshield apparently doesn't do well against sharps, and this *was* the Heaven Sword).

    2. The aforementioned injury at Mt. Mo Dong at the hands of the Yeun Ming Elders.

    3. Injured en rout to Shaolin Temple by a platoon of Tibetan monks and the Yeun Ming Elders again (perhaps the shield was simply overwhelmed this time).

    4. Injured by Chow Chi Yerk using 9 Yum White Bone Claws at the Shaolin Temple (although likely Cheung Mo Gei switched the shield off for her sake).

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    It failed Cheung Mo Gei four times during HSDS.

    1. When Chow Chi Yerk injured him with the Heaven Sword (granted: the 9 Yeung autoshield apparently doesn't do well against sharps, and this *was* the Heaven Sword).
    I don't think anyone in JY universe had a shield good enough to block that.

    2. The aforementioned injury at Mt. Mo Dong at the hands of the Yeun Ming Elders.
    Most of his 9 Yang were used in matching palms with the elders. However, he only had 2 hands versus their 4, that's why he was injured (temporarily). Remember that at that stage, ZWJ was still learning how to use his 9 Yang energy (he only had it for like a week by then and his energy was very raw and unrefined). After spending some time with ZSF, 6 months later he whipped both elders within 30 stances.

    3. Injured en rout to Shaolin Temple by a platoon of Tibetan monks and the Yeun Ming Elders again (perhaps the shield was simply overwhelmed this time).
    He was ambushed from behind when he had no spare energy to deal with the elders as he used most of it to block the 24 monks.

    4. Injured by Chow Chi Yerk using 9 Yum White Bone Claws at the Shaolin Temple (although likely Cheung Mo Gei switched the shield off for her sake).
    The Claws didn't do much. What really injured ZWJ was that he withdrew his all-out palm attack and turned it on himself, as he realised that ZZR was weak and his palm would crush her. It's like he hit himself with full force.

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    This is one of the reasons I don't think 9 Yang's auto-protect really lives up to its claim of automatism after all.
    I think it does. It's just that the examples of when it failed ZWJ happened when he only just had it and didn't really know how to use it.
    Last edited by Candide; 03-02-08 at 08:03 AM.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    Most of his 9 Yang were used in matching palms with the elders. However, he only had 2 hands versus their 4, that's why he was injured (temporarily). Remember that at that stage, ZWJ was still learning how to use his 9 Yang energy (he only had it for like a week by then and his energy was very raw and unrefined). After spending some time with ZSF, 6 months later he whipped both elders within 30 stances.

    I think it does. It's just that the examples of when it failed ZWJ happened when he only just had it and didn't really know how to use it.
    But if it's really AUTO, then it shouldn't depend much on the user's proficiency in generating energy (since that would be manual).

    If we look at Xuzhu in DGSD chapter 38, he could tap into about 30% of his internal resources. And yet, his auto-protect fended off LOTUS FAIRY Cui Luhua, SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan, and even Jiumozhi. Now that's what I call auto-protect.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    But if it's really AUTO, then it shouldn't depend much on the user's proficiency in generating energy (since that would be manual).

    If we look at Xuzhu in DGSD chapter 38, he could tap into about 30% of his internal resources. And yet, his auto-protect fended off LOTUS FAIRY Cui Luhua, SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan, and even Jiumozhi. Now that's what I call auto-protect.
    Thats called pure brute force or 'Quantity has a Quality all of its own'.

    As for this part :


    What really injured ZWJ was that he withdrew his all-out palm attack and turned it on himself, as he realised that ZZR was weak and his palm would crush her. It's like he hit himself with full force.

    Anyone can post the chinese passage? In DGSD when YTZ injured himself because he withdrew his palm, it was stated that any other elite fighter would be able to divert the force elsewhere and only idiot YTZ turned it back on himself. Was ZWJ being an idiot at that instance too?

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