Could 20-year old Yeung Gor produce a Greats-magnitude roar?

[tape]

I think there's a pretty good passage that answers this question, which is when Huang Yaoshi tells Yang Guo he hasn't reached his level of inner power until he was 30, which is around the age he was during the first tournament. Of course inner power doesn't necessarily equate to skill etc but it's a pretty good indicator. That's actually pretty lousy if you think about Wang Chong Yang taking seven days to prove his superiority to 20 year old Yang Guo-esque people.

I also realize that this was triggered by Huang's infusion of inner power to heal him, but I would think it wasn't THAT much of a boost, and a man of Huang's knowledge would think and refute his previous thought once he practiced more with Yang Guo while teaching him swordplay and the Divine Snap.

[Athena]

I also realize that this was triggered by Huang's infusion of inner power to heal him, but I would think it wasn't THAT much of a boost, and a man of Huang's knowledge would think and refute his previous thought once he practiced more with Yang Guo while teaching him swordplay and the Divine Snap.

About the Huang Yaoshi aged 30 and Yang Guo aged 20 bit. It is not that 30 year old Huang Yaoshi's internal strength is a bit better than Yang Guo. Huang never said the above, he was commenting on a feat produced by a 20 year old Yang Guo.
This was one of the few things Hank (Hanky Panky) and I ever agreed upon in the past.
The reason why that roar of Yang was so powerful was because of Huang Yaoshi. Huang Yaoshi used his internal energy to help Yang recover a day earlier, however Yang Guo had Ancient Tomb and Jiuyin energy stored in him. Adding the different style of internal power of Huang Yaoshi, his body needed to vent out everything.
Yang Guo at the age of 20 something is definitely not capable of producing 'Great' roars all the time.
The abundant powerful energy of East Heretic, the Ancient Tomb stored energy (because of the Ice bed) and the Taoist fluent Jiu Yin. Result is a roar that can only be produced by someone like a Great.
Huang Yaoshi's comment was how is it possible that this child is able to do such a feat at his age. What kind of strange encounter(s) did he have? Huang, himself, was only capable of doing such a thing (a roar of a Great) when he was 30.
At the age of 30, Huang Yaoshi was capable of producing roars that were extremely powerful, meaning he (and the other greats) was (were) certainly not weak as you put it.

[tape]

That's true, but I took that to mean that YG reached at least a certain level of inner power, which can be used to gauge 30-year old HYS. I can't imagine some weaker characters producing a roar even reacting with HYS different type of inner strength. Just my opinion anyway, since 20 year old YG was certainly not weak either.

[PJ]

I have a different interpretation than Athena. If I understand correctly, Athena believes Yang Guo's Great roar was a one-time, irreproducible feat. I, too, believe that the roar was driven by Yang Guo's need to vent; however I believe that the internal energy he used to roar was his permanent internal energy, not just a temporary freak accident caused by Huang Yaoshi's power. Certainly, when Huang Yaoshi's energy entered Yang Guo's body, it caused Yang Guo wanting to vent, but I also think the level of the roar was an accurate reflection of his internal cultivation, which = post-30 years old Huang Yaoshi.

[kyss of the sword]

That's true, but I took that to mean that YG reached at least a certain level of inner power, which can be used to gauge 30-year old HYS. I can't imagine some weaker characters producing a roar even reacting with HYS different type of inner strength. Just my opinion anyway, since 20 year old YG was certainly not weak either.

the greats were about thirty five(fifty-five at roch, twenty years after the tournament) , so their level at the 1st huashan tournament is YG from that point plus five years of practise.
yang guo had reached a level of inner power achievement(power level as well as technique) were he could utalise his vital energy, which may be the gateway point to practising high level inner power. those who do not manage this, remain at lower levels of inner power, even the elite fighters.

[Ren Ying Ying]

I have a different interpretation than Athena. If I understand correctly, Athena believes Yang Guo's Great roar was a one-time, irreproducible feat. I, too, believe that the roar was driven by Yang Guo's need to vent; however I believe that the internal energy he used to roar was his permanent internal energy, not just a temporary freak accident caused by Huang Yaoshi's power. Certainly, when Huang Yaoshi's energy entered Yang Guo's body, it caused Yang Guo wanting to vent, but I also think the level of the roar was an accurate reflection of his internal cultivation, which = post-30 years old Huang Yaoshi.

from my view, amount of internal energy is not necessarily the only factor played in "roaring".

the energy may belong to YG, but he certainly needed a "trigger" (HYS's energy).

the question lies in...when HYS was reaching such a stage, did he also require a "trigger" or was he able to produce such need to "vent" on his own. i believe these the two different situations may reflect different levels of internal energy, either in terms of abundance or quality.

[tape]

I assume HYS did not need a trigger, and he is most definitely at a level above 20 year old Yang Guo, but I considered it a viable way to help estimate their pre-LOCH levels.

[PJ]

from my view, amount of internal energy is not necessarily the only factor played in "roaring".

the energy may belong to YG, but he certainly needed a "trigger" (HYS's energy).

Sure, Huang yaoshi's energy was the trigger, but I believe that Yang Guo could also trigger himself. I.e. He could roar like that anytime he wants./

[Dennis Chen]

ZWJ had Greats (end of ROCH) internal, but couldn't tap into all of it until the after being in the bag.

[Athena]

No doubt that Yang Guo had a very profound level in internal energy cultivation at that time, but I still feel that he needed another stream of energy in his body to produce that roar. After reading that passage again, I still feel that Huang's energy was an important factor for the roar.
Mind you, give Yang Guo at least another three years (with no freak accidents), he could definitely produce that roar on his own. Why do I say three years, because East Heretic seems to believe that after three years Yang Guo could surely defeat Li Mochou. If that happened, we would have a Yang Guo mid twenties (with no freak accidents a la snake bladders and Dugu training) having the internal energy cultivation of the four original greats aged 30 something.

[Ren Wo Xing]

No doubt that Yang Guo had a very profound level in internal energy cultivation at that time, but I still feel that he needed another stream of energy in his body to produce that roar. After reading that passage again, I still feel that Huang's energy was an important factor for the roar.
Mind you, give Yang Guo at least another three years (with no freak accidents), he could definitely produce that roar on his own. Why do I say three years, because East Heretic seems to believe that after three years Yang Guo could surely defeat Li Mochou. If that happened, we would have a Yang Guo mid twenties (with no freak accidents a la snake bladders and Dugu training) having the internal energy cultivation of the four original greats aged 30 something.

Here's what I don't understand though. At the time of the Heroes meeting, Yang Guo clearly had relatively poor internal energy, which he made up for with a variety of skills. How is it that in the short time period from then, to when he met HYS, that he gained enough internal energy, even with HYS's stream, to allow him to achieve a Greats level roar? I can recall no major events at all which significantly impacted Yang Guo's internal energy level. The jump seems remarkable, and altogether quite strange.

I find your original argument that the roar was generated only with the boost from HYS to be more compelling, unless there is something I am forgetting. With regards to HYS's comment about Yang Guo being able to defeat Li Mochou within three years, my impression was that it was a reference (and contingent upon) his mastering the Divine Flicking Fingers to a high enough level to counter Li Mochou's Five Poison Palms.

[ChronoReverse]

Incidentally, that roar is a special kind of roar. It's not something you can do everyday since it's produced by a special circumstance. It's not even voluntary but rather a reflexive action.

[Athena]

Here's what I don't understand though. At the time of the Heroes meeting, Yang Guo clearly had relatively poor internal energy, which he made up for with a variety of skills. How is it that in the short time period from then, to when he met HYS, that he gained enough internal energy, even with HYS's stream, to allow him to achieve a Greats level roar? I can recall no major events at all which significantly impacted Yang Guo's internal energy level. The jump seems remarkable, and altogether quite strange.

I find your original argument that the roar was generated only with the boost from HYS to be more compelling, unless there is something I am forgetting. With regards to HYS's comment about Yang Guo being able to defeat Li Mochou within three years, my impression was that it was a reference (and contingent upon) his mastering the Divine Flicking Fingers to a high enough level to counter Li Mochou's Five Poison Palms.

Yang Guo studied different types of sophisticated internal energies, although he doesn't have the same level in internal energy as experts like Huo Du, Hao Datong, Sun Bu'er. But he already has a remarkable level for his age. Huang Yaoshi's energy stream interacted with Ancient Tomb ice-bed acumulated energy and streams of Nine Negation energy and we have a powerful Great level roar.
Even Li Mochou once commented that Yang Guo will surpass within ten years time (this was before the first Heroes' Meet and meeting Ouyang and Hong). I imagine that after those encouters and pointers he received Yang could knock down a few years from that decade needed training.
It is a reference to the Divine Flicking Finger, but it could also be an all-round martial arts (including internal energy cultivation) estimate, I don't know.

[Ren Ying Ying]

Mind you, give Yang Guo at least another three years (with no freak accidents), he could definitely produce that roar on his own. Why do I say three years, because East Heretic seems to believe that after three years Yang Guo could surely defeat Li Mochou. If that happened, we would have a Yang Guo mid twenties (with no freak accidents a la snake bladders and Dugu training) having the internal energy cultivation of the four original greats aged 30 something.

wouldn't that be under the assumption that LMC would be around the level of an original great in their 30's?

considering some people would consider LMC to be weaker than MCF (who still looked like crap compared to LOCH Greats--so i would assume still significantly below that of the greats at original Mt. Hua Tourney), that's not saying much about YG being able to beat LMC.

[Athena]

Sorry, I don't know exactly what I was trying to communicate. I lost that trail of thought.

I do believe that 4 Greats in 30+ > Li Mochou. Just my gut feeling, sorry.
Also, Yang Guo's roar needed Huang's energy.

[PJ]

Incidentally, that roar is a special kind of roar. It's not something you can do everyday since it's produced by a special circumstance. It's not even voluntary but rather a reflexive action.

And where is YOUR evidence?
I am not talking to anyone else except for YOU,
so please, I want an answer from YOU not anyone else.
I am rather tired of YOU spouting claims that sound like the absolute truth, when YOU don't provide any explanation or proof from the novels. Some of your claims are rather outrageous and it would be in your best interest to provide some clarification so we know that you hadn't pulled them out of thin air.

[PJ]

And where is YOUR evidence?
I am not talking to anyone else except for YOU,
so please, I want an answer from YOU not anyone else.
I am rather tired of YOU spouting claims that sound like the absolute truth, when YOU don't provide any explanation or proof from the novels. Some of your claims are rather outrageous and it would be in your best interest to provide some clarification so we know that you hadn't pulled them out of thin air.

Anyway, the reason I think ChronoReverse pulled his claim out of his a$$ (as usual, without explanation) is due to this statement from the novel:

原来一人内功练到一定境界，往往会不知不觉的大发异声。

When one reaches a certain level of internal energy cultivation, it is common for him to roar loudly.

That doesn't sound too "special" to me, since it applies broadly.