You Tanzhi -vs- SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan

[PJ]

Who would win?

In this case, we have to look at each exponent carefully.

In DGSD, You Tanzhi has NEVER fought a powerful weaponed exponent. It's been proven that if you make physical contact with him, and you have significantly less internal energy (which is the case with SWORD GOD), then you'd be screwed.

However, it's a different story if you attack him with a weapon. SWORD GOD was able to easily inflict an external wound on Duan Yu's chest. SWORD GOD wasn't even trying to really injure him. Who knows if Duan Yu would still be in one peace had SWORD GOD gone all-out. Duan Yu was stated to have more internal energy than Xiao Feng and Jiumozhi, so he would not be any inferior to You Tanzhi in terms of internal energy. If Duan Yu's auto-protect cannot protect him from a simple attack from SWORD GOD (which was the case in the novel), then You Tanzhi would not be able to do so either.

SWORD GOD would not be so stupid as to meet You Tanzhi's palm head-on, since his specialty is the sword after all. The only way You Tanzhi can win is by speed or if he can land a hit on SWORD GOD. But if SWORD GOD lands a hit first, You Tanzhi can probably say bye-bye. And by the way, You Tanzhi probably sucks at dealing with weapons since he has no experience with so.

So, I ask yee, who would win?

[sarakoth]

Who would win?

In this case, we have to look at each exponent carefully.

In DGSD, You Tanzhi has NEVER fought a powerful weaponed exponent. It's been proven that if you make physical contact with him, and you have significantly less internal energy (which is the case with SWORD GOD), then you'd be screwed.

However, it's a different story if you attack him with a weapon. SWORD GOD was able to easily inflict an external wound on Duan Yu's chest. SWORD GOD wasn't even trying to really injure him. Who knows if Duan Yu would still be in one peace had SWORD GOD gone all-out. Duan Yu was stated to have more internal energy than Xiao Feng and Jiumozhi, so he would not be any inferior to You Tanzhi in terms of internal energy. If Duan Yu's auto-protect cannot protect him from a simple attack from SWORD GOD (which was the case in the novel), then You Tanzhi would not be able to do so either.

SWORD GOD would not be so stupid as to meet You Tanzhi's palm head-on, since his specialty is the sword after all. The only way You Tanzhi can win is by speed or if he can land a hit on SWORD GOD. But if SWORD GOD lands a hit first, You Tanzhi can probably say bye-bye. And by the way, You Tanzhi probably sucks at dealing with weapons since he has no experience with so.

So, I ask yee, who would win?

If he could easily inflict a wound on one of the three Internal Beasts of DGSD, imagine what he could do to YTZ.

[PJ]

Here is the exact passage where SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan easily inflicted a wound on Duan Yu:

卓不凡长剑抖动，一招“天如穹庐”，跟着一招“白雾茫茫”，两招混一，向王语嫣递去，要将她圈在剑光之中拉 过来，居为奇货，以便与虚竹交换，要他吐露秘密。王语嫣一见这两招，心中便道：“‘天如穹庐’和‘白雾茫茫 ’，都是九虚一实。只须中宫直进，捣其心腹，便逼得他非收招不可。”可是心中虽知其法，手上功夫却使不出来 ，眼见剑光闪闪，罩向自己头上，惊惶之下，“啊”的一声叫了出来。慕容复看出卓不凡这两招并无伤害王语嫣之 意，心想：“我不忙出手，且看这姓卓的老儿捣什么鬼？这小和尚是否会为了表妹而吐露机密？”但段誉一见到卓 不凡的剑招指向王语嫣，他也不懂剑招虚实，自然是大惊失色，情急之下，脚下展开“凌波微步”，疾冲过去，挡 在王语嫣身前。卓不凡剑招虽快，段誉还是抢先了一步。长剑寒光闪处，嗤得一声轻响，剑尖在段誉胸口划了一条口子，自颈至腹，衣衫尽裂，伤及肌肤。总算卓不凡志在逼求虚竹心中的机密，不欲此时杀人树敌，这一剑手劲的轻重恰到好处，剑痕虽长，伤势却甚轻 微。段誉吓得呆了，一低头见到自己胸膛和肚腹上如此长的一条剑伤，鲜血迸流，只道已被他开膛破腹，立时便要毙命，叫道：“王姑娘，你……你快躲开，我来挡他一 阵。”
　　卓不凡冷笑道：“泥菩萨过江，自身难保，居然不自量力，来做护花之人。”转头向虚竹道：“小兄弟，看中 这位姑娘的人可着实不少，我先动手给你除去一个情敌如何？”长剑剑尖指着段誉心口，相距一吋， 抖动不定，只须轻轻一送，立即插入他的心脏。虚竹大惊，叫道：“不可，万万不可！”

Roughly what happened is: SWORD GOD executed a stance at Wang Yuyan. It was a stance that didn't have any power behind it, since he was just trying to scare her a little. Duan Yu panicked and blocked the sword stance with his body, resulting in a long external wound. It was then stated that SWORD GOD could have easily killed Duan Yu if he wanted to, by thrusting the blade into Duan Yu's heart.

[CC]

I'd say if they start fighting at close range SWORD GOD would win.

But YTZ has some advantages :

1. He can LDA (demonstrated vs Xuan Ci)

2. He can run if he wanted (demonstrated when he shocked DCQ with his speed)

4. He can use DECAYING CORPSE POISON!

[flamer]

Here is the exact passage where SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan easily inflicted a wound on Duan Yu:

卓不凡长剑抖动，一招“天如穹庐”，跟着一招“白雾茫茫”，两招混一，向王语嫣递去，要将她圈在剑光之中拉 过来，居为奇货，以便与虚竹交换，要他吐露秘密。王语嫣一见这两招，心中便道：“‘天如穹庐’和‘白雾茫茫 ’，都是九虚一实。只须中宫直进，捣其心腹，便逼得他非收招不可。”可是心中虽知其法，手上功夫却使不出来 ，眼见剑光闪闪，罩向自己头上，惊惶之下，“啊”的一声叫了出来。慕容复看出卓不凡这两招并无伤害王语嫣之 意，心想：“我不忙出手，且看这姓卓的老儿捣什么鬼？这小和尚是否会为了表妹而吐露机密？”但段誉一见到卓 不凡的剑招指向王语嫣，他也不懂剑招虚实，自然是大惊失色，情急之下，脚下展开“凌波微步”，疾冲过去，挡 在王语嫣身前。卓不凡剑招虽快，段誉还是抢先了一步。长剑寒光闪处，嗤得一声轻响，剑尖在段誉胸口划了一条口子，自颈至腹，衣衫尽裂，伤及肌肤。总算卓不凡志在逼求虚竹心中的机密，不欲此时杀人树敌，这一剑手劲的轻重恰到好处，剑痕虽长，伤势却甚轻 微。段誉吓得呆了，一低头见到自己胸膛和肚腹上如此长的一条剑伤，鲜血迸流，只道已被他开膛破腹，立时便要毙命，叫道：“王姑娘，你……你快躲开，我来挡他一 阵。”
　　卓不凡冷笑道：“泥菩萨过江，自身难保，居然不自量力，来做护花之人。”转头向虚竹道：“小兄弟，看中 这位姑娘的人可着实不少，我先动手给你除去一个情敌如何？”长剑剑尖指着段誉心口，相距一吋， 抖动不定，只须轻轻一送，立即插入他的心脏。虚竹大惊，叫道：“不可，万万不可！”

Roughly what happened is: SWORD GOD executed a stance at Wang Yuyan. It was a stance that didn't have any power behind it, since he was just trying to scare her a little. Duan Yu panicked and blocked the sword stance with his body, resulting in a long external wound. It was then stated that SWORD GOD could have easily killed Duan Yu if he wanted to, by thrusting the blade into Duan Yu's heart.

Hmm but this was the time which DY's potential was not utilized, and his first reaction was not to fight but to use his body, prob he thought he was no good with kung fu. If it was DY at the end of DGSD, i think DY would've been able to grab over the sword or at least defeat Zhuo quite easily.

I also noticed you cut off the passage at 虚竹大惊，叫道：“不可，万万不可！” so for your viewing pleasure :P

虚竹大惊，
叫道：“不可，万万不可！”生怕卓不凡杀死段誉，左手伸出，小指在他右腕“太渊穴”上
轻轻一拂。卓不凡手上一麻，握着剑柄的五指便即松了。虚竹顺手将长剑抓在掌中。这一下
夺剑，乃是“天山折梅手”中的高招，看似平平无奇，其实他小指的一拂之中，含有最上乘
的“小无相功”，卓不凡的功力便再深三四十年，手中长剑一样的也给夺了下来。

[Exodus]

Hmm but this was the time which DY's potential was not utilized, and his first reaction was not to fight but to use his body, prob he thought he was no good with kung fu. If it was DY at the end of DGSD, i think DY would've been able to grab over the sword or at least defeat Zhuo quite easily.

I also noticed you cut off the passage at 虚竹大惊，叫道：“不可，万万不可！” so for your viewing pleasure :P

虚竹大惊，
叫道：“不可，万万不可！”生怕卓不凡杀死段誉，左手伸出，小指在他右腕“太渊穴”上
轻轻一拂。卓不凡手上一麻，握着剑柄的五指便即松了。虚竹顺手将长剑抓在掌中。这一下
夺剑，乃是“天山折梅手”中的高招，看似平平无奇，其实他小指的一拂之中，含有最上乘
的“小无相功”，卓不凡的功力便再深三四十年，手中长剑一样的也给夺了下来。

yeah agree DY didn't even try to use his martial arts to deflect the attack. If he wanted to he could use 6msj to kill Zhou Bufan

[PJ]

Hmm but this was the time which DY's potential was not utilized, and his first reaction was not to fight but to use his body

In any case, I was trying to show that SWORD GOD has the ability to injure an above-Xiao Feng level fighter when the latter sucks at fighting, which is a valid concern with You Tanzhi.

prob he thought he was no good with kung fu. If it was DY at the end of DGSD, i think DY would've been able to grab over the sword or at least defeat Zhuo quite easily.

Maybe, but I'm talking about the Duan Yu in chapter 38 who has higher internal energy than Xiao Feng, Murong Bo, Jiumozhi, and Xiao Yuanshan.

[PJ]

yeah agree DY didn't even try to use his martial arts to deflect the attack. If he wanted to he could use 6msj to kill Zhou Bufan

I'm trying to show that at Duan Yu and You Tanzhi's level, their "auto-protect" would not be able to protect them from SWORD GOD's attack.

At Xuzhu's level, the auto-protect is strong enough to brush off SWORD GOD's attack, but not at You Tanzhi's level.

[Exodus]

I'm trying to show that at Duan Yu and You Tanzhi's level, their "auto-protect" would not be able to protect them from SWORD GOD's attack.

At Xuzhu's level, the auto-protect is strong enough to brush off SWORD GOD's attack, but not at You Tanzhi's level.

We don't know how powerful DY's auto-protect was by the end of DGSD. Anyway I really think "sword god" is kinda overrated and You Tanzhi should be able to beat him without too much trouble.

[Wu Wudi]

Hmm but this was the time which DY's potential was not utilized, and his first reaction was not to fight but to use his body, prob he thought he was no good with kung fu. If it was DY at the end of DGSD, i think DY would've been able to grab over the sword or at least defeat Zhuo quite easily.

I also noticed you cut off the passage at 虚竹大惊，叫道：“不可，万万不可！” so for your viewing pleasure :P

虚竹大惊，
叫道：“不可，万万不可！”生怕卓不凡杀死段誉，左手伸出，小指在他右腕“太渊穴”上
轻轻一拂。卓不凡手上一麻，握着剑柄的五指便即松了。虚竹顺手将长剑抓在掌中。这一下
夺剑，乃是“天山折梅手”中的高招，看似平平无奇，其实他小指的一拂之中，含有最上乘
的“小无相功”，卓不凡的功力便再深三四十年，手中长剑一样的也给夺了下来。

Xu Zhu seemed to have far less difficulty subduing Sword God than he did with DCQ, even though he still had little experience at that point. Based on what we know of DCQ and YTZ's exchanges, is it possible to infer Sword God's level of mastery?

I'm not making an argument in favor of either character since I don't remember exactly all the details. I'm just suggesting another method to obtain more relevant information.

[PJ]

We don't know how powerful DY's auto-protect was by the end of DGSD.

That's irrelevant since SWORD GOD did not meet the Duan Yu at the end of novel but rather the Duan Yu in chapter 38.

Anyway I really think "sword god" is kinda overrated and You Tanzhi should be able to beat him without too much trouble.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
In my opening post I gave a lengthy description for why I think SWORD GOD *could* win.
I'm not saying he would definitely win, but he has a favorable chance IMHFO.

[PJ]

Xu Zhu seemed to have far less difficulty subduing Sword God than he did with DCQ, even though he still had little experience at that point. Based on what we know of DCQ and YTZ's exchanges, is it possible to infer Sword God's level of mastery?

I'm not making an argument in favor of either character since I don't remember exactly all the details. I'm just suggesting another method to obtain more relevant information.

It's certainly possible to make such a comparison, but IMO such a comparison is comparing apples to oranges, since the circumstances surrounding the encounters with Ding Chunqiu and with SWORD GOD were quite different.

It was stated that Xuzhu could have nailed Ding Chunqiu right away if he actually tried harder, but he didn't. Circumstantial details such as this must be taken into consideration.

Xuzhu was trying to save Duan Yu's life when he snatched SWORD GOD's weapon. In Ding Chunqiu's case, no life was at stake; Xuzhu did not feel compelled to have to end the fight any time soon. In fact, Xuzhu prolonged the fight to as long as he could! He simply did not want to subdue Ding Chunqiu. It was not until Ding injured his maid that Xuzhu took the fight seriously. If Xuzhu applied the URGENT force that he applied onto SWORD GOD, I would not be surprised if he would own Ding Chunqiu in one stance (not kill Ding or anything, but demonstrate his superiority).

I have an example to show that comparing fighters in different situations is difficult. Duan Zhengchun and Gongye Gan both fought Duan Yanqing. In Duan Zhengchun's case, he took on over 80 stances from Duan Yanqing... in Gongye Gan's case, he and Deng Baichuan together didn't last 7 stances against Duan Yanqing. So if we just compare both cases, Duan Zhengchun looks vastly superior. And yet, Xiao Feng thought that he could kill Duan Zhengchun in one stance, whereas we know that Gongye Gan took 3 of Xiao Feng's stances. Why? Most likely because Xiao Feng deeply wanted to kill Duan Zhengchun, whereas he didn't use his maximum power with Gongye Gan. At the end of the day, it all can add up but we have to consider ALL of the circumstances influencing the outcome.

[flamer]

But you see the thing with You Tanzhi, hes not completely unable to use his kung fu, unlike Duan Yu who does not even think he can use anything. You Tanzhi defeated the contenders to the Beggar Sect's leadership and he must have already known he was some good and would use his kung fu. This would mean that Zhuo would encounter much more of a problem with You as he actually fights, unlike Duan Yu who was almost like someone who doesnt know any kung fu.

[PJ]

But you see the thing with You Tanzhi, hes not completely unable to use his kung fu, unlike Duan Yu who does not even think he can use anything. You Tanzhi defeated the contenders to the Beggar Sect's leadership and he must have already known he was some good and would use his kung fu. This would mean that Zhuo would encounter much more of a problem with You as he actually fights, unlike Duan Yu who was almost like someone who doesnt know any kung fu.

Yes, You Tanzhi is a better fighter than Duan Yu.
But nevertheless, his weakness is in the area of technique.
SWORD GOD is certainly much much better than You Tanzhi in terms of technique,
while You Tanzhi's internal energy is much stronger.

But let's not forget You Tanzhi's LDA isn't that great.
He was only able to brush off Abbot Xuanci's robe belt (?),
and I'm sure Xuanci didn't even use his maximum strength on his LDA,
and You Tanzhi used both of his hands on that LDA.
Since I rank SWORD GOD not far below Xuanci, I don't think
You Tanzhi's LDA can do much to SWORD GOD.

Unlike CC, I tend to think that You Tanzhi is more dangerous in close range.
He actually knocked out a Xuan-generation monk in just one exchange.
But it was a case of physical contact, which won't happen with SWORD GOD
because SWORD GOD uses a weapon, and You Tanzhi will have a lot of trouble with that.

Ultimately, it this battle boils down to is whether You Tanzhi's poisonous internal energy can prevail over technique, or if SWORD GOD's peak-of-perfectionist technique can overcome internal energy.

[kyss of the sword]

YTZ is most dangerous when he can directly match palms(icy silkworm toxin) with an opponent or throw a poisoned person at them(decaying corpse skill). but an expert swordsman like zhuo bufan might be able to avoid his superior inner power strikes and kill him with a trust to the heart. but YTZ did have incredibly fast reflexes from yiyinji/yoga technique. so he won't be completely useless. he can just throw out toxic LDA to keep zhu bufan at bay till he dies from the poison.

[CC]

But let's not forget You Tanzhi's LDA isn't that great.
He was only able to brush off Abbot Xuanci's robe belt (?),
and I'm sure Xuanci didn't even use his maximum strength on his LDA,
and You Tanzhi used both of his hands on that LDA.
Since I rank SWORD GOD not far below Xuanci, I don't think
You Tanzhi's LDA can do much to SWORD GOD.

.

He busted Xuanci's belt and not Xuanci's head because Xuanci was using his Da Li Jin Gang Zhang (his top skill) to match palms. And why would Xuanci not use full strength? His Sects reputation was at stake during that exchange.

[PJ]

He busted Xuanci's belt and not Xuanci's head because Xuanci was using his Da Li Jin Gang Zhang (his top skill) to match palms. And why would Xuanci not use full strength? His Sects reputation was at stake during that exchange.

Xuanci was a kind monk.
He never wanted to fight the head of Gaibang.
It's only natural that he would hold back some.
Besides, kind people generally hold back on their first attack.
There are too many such examples and I'd be happy to list them.

[Exodus]

Xuanci was a kind monk.
He never wanted to fight the head of Gaibang.
It's only natural that he would hold back some.
Besides, kind people generally hold back on their first attack.
There are too many such examples and I'd be happy to list them.

maybe you are right since he didn't thought that YTZ was that powerful and when he first realized it was too late.

But wouldn't he be careful fighting the head of beggar clan sure as a head your martial arts must be pretty good

[PJ]

But wouldn't he be careful fighting the head of beggar clan sure as a head your martial arts must be pretty good

Beggar's Union and Shaolin have been friends for centuries.
They've never fought each other before.
Xuanci wanted to pay respect to the Chief of Beggars.
Therefore it's unlikely that he would use his maximum power to deliver his first blow.

Even though You Tanzhi had previously demonstrated malice,
Xuanci would not be "smart" enough to realize it.
People in wuxia often base their thoughts on incorrect information,
even when it's right in front of their eyes.
That's just how it is.

A few moments later, Xuanci used his internal energy to lift up Granny Yu.
He only used 50% of his power.
This shows his benevolence.

[CC]

Beggar's Union and Shaolin have been friends for centuries.
They've never fought each other before.
Xuanci wanted to pay respect to the Chief of Beggars.
Therefore it's unlikely that he would use his maximum power to deliver his first blow.

Even though You Tanzhi had previously demonstrated malice,
Xuanci would not be "smart" enough to realize it.
People in wuxia often base their thoughts on incorrect information,
even when it's right in front of their eyes.
That's just how it is.

A few moments later, Xuanci used his internal energy to lift up Granny Yu.
He only used 50% of his power.
This shows his benevolence.

When Xuanci fought YTZ, the whole bloody mountain had already seen YTZ fight with DCQ. YTZ had already demonstrated incredible speed, insane poisonous energy and auto-recover. It would not make sense for Xuanci to take things lightly. And unless Xuanci was a real bonehead, he should have known by then how powerful YTZ' internal was.