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Thread: Wong Chung Yeung + Lam Chiu Ying vs. Dook Goo Kau Bai

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Wong Chung Yeung + Lam Chiu Ying vs. Dook Goo Kau Bai

    In the pre-LOCH era, Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung defeated all the other Greats at the Mt. Hua Sword Tournament to claim the title of World's # 1 Martial Artist. His only rival was Ancient Tomb Sect Founder Lam Chiu Ying, whose martial arts were on par with his. Combined, their martial arts formed a powerful synergism that, a few generations later, Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl would use only a portion of to match the Greats of their time.

    The OTHER powerful figure of the pre-LOCH era was Dook Goo Kau Bai. It's been opined in the past that Wong Chung Yeung by himself probably could not defeat Dook Goo Kau Bai, but what about the Wong Chung Yeung/Lam Chiu Ying combo? If they work together and gang up on Dook Goo Kau Bai, could they take down the "invincible" Sword Demon?

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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    If Wang Chongyang + Lin Chaoying uses their Jade Maiden + Quanzhen combo then they would lose miserably. Dugu Qiubai is the master of swords based on what I read so far. He can tell what his opponents are going to use even before their execute it. Just look at Feng Qingyang and Linghu Chong. With Dugu 9 Jian they became two of the best martial artists of their time. Imagine what the creator of this swordplay can do.

    However if they use other techniques or LDA then it'll be a different story. They might overwhelm DGQB with their excessive energy or get defeated by the 9th Stance.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogeyman View Post
    If Wang Chongyang + Lin Chaoying uses their Jade Maiden + Quanzhen combo then they would lose miserably.
    Maybe not. The Golden Wheel Monk observed that when Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl used the Double Sword Attack, there was absolutely no weakness. Dook Goo Kau Bai's sword technique depended on exploiting weaknesses; what if there were no weakness for him to exploit?

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    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Maybe not. The Golden Wheel Monk observed that when Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl use the Double Sword Attack, there was absolutely no weakness. Dook Goo Kau Bai's sword technique depended on exploiting weaknesses; what if there were no weakness for him to exploit?
    and of course, we all know that the Golden Wheel Monk is the greatest at spotting weaknesses...*cough*

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogeyman View Post
    If Wang Chongyang + Lin Chaoying uses their Jade Maiden + Quanzhen combo then they would lose miserably. Dugu Qiubai is the master of swords based on what I read so far. He can tell what his opponents are going to use even before their execute it. Just look at Feng Qingyang and Linghu Chong. With Dugu 9 Jian they became two of the best martial artists of their time. Imagine what the creator of this swordplay can do.
    I am interested to know where was it said that Dugu 9 Swords is a COMBOS attack? I would classify it more as a PAC method.

    Get the explanations of COMBOS and PAC here: http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...ghlight=combos

    However if they use other techniques or LDA then it'll be a different story. They might overwhelm DGQB with their excessive energy or get defeated by the 9th Stance.
    The Trilogy Greats have never been known for their LDA.
    If anything, they would be better at exploiting strategies and formations.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    I think DG9J has a merciless, go for the kill philosophy, while the dual lovers sword moves invented by Lin Chao Yin was not a practical, follow the flow and kill your opponent style, it was inspired by her deep love for Wang Chong Yang.

    So the 2 practitioners were good at mutually defending one another, but not as good as D9GJ for actually killing someone. So I believe that they would offer an extremely potent defense, but that they would not be able to kill Dugu QiuBai with that technique. They might stand a better chance by using 9 Yin, 1 Yang Zhi or other martial arts.

    There are cases of people fighting without flaws from a defensive stance in SPW wanderer as well, such as when Chong Xu of Wudang initally engaged Linghu Chong. Chong Xu was fighting defensively and there was no flaws, only when he switched to offensive moves where there flaws to be exploited. Furthermore, LHC attacked Mr. Black-White 40 times to no avail, because the latter was fighting completely defensively and offered a flawless defense, although his offense was non-existent at that point.

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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    The Trilogy Greats have never been known for their LDA.
    You have a point here. The only LDA I can think of is 1 Yangzhi and Xiang Long 18 Zhang. And maybe Sad Palms. There really isn't a whole lot of LDA in the Trilogy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Maybe not. The Golden Wheel Monk observed that when Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl used the Double Sword Attack, there was absolutely no weakness. Dook Goo Kau Bai's sword technique depended on exploiting weaknesses; what if there were no weakness for him to exploit?
    One of his techniques is finding weaknesses. He could just smash through their swords with an iron sword.

    It's too hard to rank DGQB but fan forums are for speculating. YG gained tremendous internal energy in chilled jade bed, wave training and eating snake organs, but he only did this for a limited amount of time. If DGQB did what YG did minus chilled jade bed but for longer periods of time he could potentially have anywhere from the same to 5x YGs energy. The latter is unlikely since he'd have to live to 100+ years old. (assuming he started internal energy training when he used the iron sword)

    Then there's the DG9J. LHC never mastered the last 3 stances (palm, arrow, qi; or maybe it was the last 4 stances) but his swordplay at least at the level of RWX. FQY said LHC would have to practice for 20 years before he can fight with true experts, and at that time LHC's sword prowess would be unbelievable. Even if we assume that the LHC+20 yrs is the maximum DGQB was able to reach, which I doubt, he'd still be incredibly powerful. If we assume that LHC+20yrs is only the minimum required to fight 'masters' DGQB would have to be even stronger than that at swords.

    Back to original argument:
    WCY internal energy =< YG's internal energy
    LCY internal energy =< WCY internal energy (although I really don't know) =< YG

    DGQB should be anywhere from = to YG (unlikely) to much stronger than YG (also unlikely), but to match the internal energy of WCY + LCY he needs 2x YGs energy which is possible.

    WCY alone < LHC swordplay
    LCY alone < LHC swordplay
    WCY + LHC most likely < LHC's swordplay (not everyone can see flaws, if they were that easily spotted then half of DG9J would be a waste of time)

    So LHC + 20yrs >>>>> WCY + LHC

    I can't see them winning against the real sword god.
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    Senior Member akayami djiho's Avatar
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    i thought itīs said that Dgu 9 sword is undefeatable so i think DGQB would win easily
    Beautiful and deadly, she is a true descendant of dragon. Fighting for the forces of right and justice, she leaves a series of broken bodies and broken hearts wherever she goes.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akayami djiho View Post
    i thought itīs said that Dgu 9 sword is undefeatable so i think DGQB would win easily
    EVERY great martial art/artist claims to be "invincible." The proof lies in whom it beats and under what circumstances. Ling Wu Chung mastered Dook Goo 9 Swords and there were people in the world of SPW that he couldn't beat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    EVERY great martial art/artist claims to be "invincible." The proof lies in whom it beats and under what circumstances. Ling Wu Chung mastered Dook Goo 9 Swords and there were people in the world of SPW that he couldn't beat.
    Actually, Ken, he never 'mastered' it; at best, he mastered the sword-breaking stance.

    Feng Qingyang specifically said that in order to compete with the highest elites in the world, LHC would need around 20 more years of hard training. Look at what LHC was doing with DG9J with just a year or two.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    Actually, Ken, he never 'mastered' it; at best, he mastered the sword-breaking stance.

    Feng Qingyang specifically said that in order to compete with the highest elites in the world, LHC would need around 20 more years of hard training. Look at what LHC was doing with DG9J with just a year or two.
    Did FQY specifically mean that it would take LHC 20 years to be able to beat DFBB? Since DFBB was the best in wulin at the time right?

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    Nope. By the time FQY had retreated from Jianghu, RWX was still in charge, and DFBB wasn't yet the best or had practiced KHBD.
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    Yes, Lin Chao-ying was able to defeat Wang Chong-yang's techniques. But, I think people overlook the fact that Wang Chong-yang wasn't all about techniques. In the end, nobody was ever able to defeat Wang Chong-yang himself. He was adaptable, always adapting, just as the other Greats always did. Lin Chao-ying, being his equal, would be the same way.

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    Dugu spented the rest of his life lliving in seclusion in a deep valley. I bet the sight of a couple trying to take him on will pisst him off to no end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radken View Post
    Dugu spented the rest of his life lliving in seclusion in a deep valley. I bet the sight of a couple trying to take him on will pisst him off to no end.
    He'd spent his last days in misery because he never found anybody who could defeat him. If Wong and Lam showed up and actually beat him, he'd have died a happy man.

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    Senior Member The Khan's Avatar
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    If WCY and LCY truely loved each other and were willing to sacrifice his/her self for the other ala YG and XLN, then the combination swordplay that LCY created would probably have a good chance to defeat DGQB.

    From the novel, the combination swordplay requires the 2 practitioners to be willing to sacrifice his/her self for the other and in so doing negates any flaws in the inherent swordplay. So basically there would be no flaw for DGQB to take advantage of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Khan View Post
    If WCY and LCY truely loved each other and were willing to sacrifice his/her self for the other ala YG and XLN, then the combination swordplay that LCY created would probably have a good chance to defeat DGQB.

    From the novel, the combination swordplay requires the 2 practitioners to be willing to sacrifice his/her self for the other and in so doing negates any flaws in the inherent swordplay. So basically there would be no flaw for DGQB to take advantage of.

    Well XLN herself did it with R/L Technique so it doesnt HAVE to have 2 people using it. But XLN did say that it was less powerful that if she had YG.

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    Just because there is no flaw does not mean that the swordplay is invincible. If there is no flaw, DGQB, being a legendary swordsman, should be able to create flaws. That is if he was as good as he claimed to be.

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    Just because we ourselves make it seem that something has no flaw or someone like JLFW claims there's no flaw means nothing. Every sword stance has a flaw, if there is "no" flaw or you cannot catch the flaw at that time then you do what LHC did against YBQ and after the person has used up all the # of stances and as to re-use it, you capitalize from there. It's quite simple in the argument that any sword combination with stances will have a flaw.

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