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Thread: Where do you think Guo Xiang was when Xiang Yang fell?

  1. #21
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    I must say it must be a mixed bag of missed opportunities. Guo Xiang fails to go back to Xiang Yang in time, (You dun seriously think she dun wanna go back because she doesnt want to be another pile of bones on the battlefield do you? She would 100% rather die with her parents).
    Where is Sichuan relative to Hubei Province? Communications and transportation being what they were in the 13th Century, it wouldn't be surprising if Gwok Seung didn't learn about the fall of the city until months after the event had occurred. I'm not up on my Chinese geography, but it's possible that Sichuan was already Mongol-occupied territory by the time Gwok Seung traveled through there.

    Yang Guo has to miss out the battle as well but get back in time to get the package Guo Jing left him to deliver (assuming its Yang Guo who delievered).
    We'll never know if it was Yeung Gor, but consider this: it had to be someone whom the Gwoks could have trusted with such an important task AND had the ability to carry it out. Other than Yeung Gor, who else could it have been?

    It all comes down to slow timing and missing out, and this has to happen to many characters (Guo Xiang, Yang Guo/Xiao LongN, ROCH Greats(if they are still alive by then, possibly not). The missing out will need to happen to these ppl to explain their survival or the lack of their description in the final battle.
    I'm reasonably assured that East Heretic, South Monk, and Central Mischief were all dead before the fall of Seung Yeung. Although they were surprisingly robust at the end of ROCH, all three were, in reality, decidedly old men. Even great martial arts masters can cheat Father Time only so long...

    Rather weak IMO to leave it all to poor timing.
    Actually, life is like that, more often than not. It's not the most dramatic thing, but it is fairly believable.

  2. #22
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Yea Ken i wasnt disagreeing with you earlier on. I agree that its very much likely Sichuan is far/close but this is quite irrelavent. The point i was trying to say is that JY left it all to missed timings. (btw i quite like the idea of Yang Guo being the one with Heaven Sword)

    Anyway i was always quite curious how Z3F lived to well over a 110 lol while others of similar internal lived, or plan to live lesser.

    It might be up to the cultivation though but like Sweeps' cultivation would also have to be immense. But i cant really picture Sweeps (or other Elites+) living to well over 110 lol.

  3. #23
    Senior Member odbayarb2000's Avatar
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    ROCH Greats lived to old ages. Huang Yaoshi, Zuo Botong and Yideng reached at least 90.

    Excerpt from wuxiapedia.

    Furthermore, unlike the real-life Zhixing who died in 1200, the Great Master Yideng lived on in the sequel story of Divine Eagle, Gallant Knight until at least 1259, the year the Mongolian King Möngke [蒙哥 Meng2 Ge1] passed away. Considering that both his grandfather, Zhengyan, and his father, Zhengxing, reigned for a total of sixty-four years before the throne was handed to him, the Great Master Yideng could well have lived to the age of 110 or more.
    "Big Hero Linghu kills frogs with the Dugu Nine Swords!”


  4. #24
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odbayarb2000 View Post
    ROCH Greats lived to old ages. Huang Yaoshi, Zuo Botong and Yideng reached at least 90.

    Excerpt from wuxiapedia.

    Furthermore, unlike the real-life Zhixing who died in 1200, the Great Master Yideng lived on in the sequel story of Divine Eagle, Gallant Knight until at least 1259, the year the Mongolian King Möngke [蒙哥 Meng2 Ge1] passed away. Considering that both his grandfather, Zhengyan, and his father, Zhengxing, reigned for a total of sixty-four years before the throne was handed to him, the Great Master Yideng could well have lived to the age of 110 or more.
    Then he would've been alive during the fall of Xiang Yang. Where was he? Probably he loved his religion and didnt care about the worldly matters. But he was quite close to the Guo family, quite strange if he didnt try to help.

  5. #25
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    Then he would've been alive during the fall of Xiang Yang. Where was he? Probably he loved his religion and didnt care about the worldly matters. But he was quite close to the Guo family, quite strange if he didnt try to help.
    Yeah, I prefer to think that the elder Greats were years in their graves by the time that Seung Yeung fell rather than sitting on their duffs as the city burned. Some "Greats" they'd be if they let that happen...

    If four of the Greats (including Gwok Jing) had been at Seung Yeung thirteen years after the end of ROCH, the city was unlikely to have fallen. I'm not even thinking about their martial arts, which really aren't that useful in mass military operations, but of the collective leadership they'd provide. It's difficult imagine that between Wong Yerk See and Wong Yung (plus Chu Tze Lau and whoever else might be around), they couldn't come up with a winning tactic...especially with the likes of Gwok Jing, Chow Bak Tung, and 1 Deng around to carry it out. The Mongols would need to have cut off Seung Yeung's access to food, water, and other basic resources to kill off the defenders by attrition to win if all the Greats were present with a halfway decent army of Sung military defenders, the beggar militia, and the wulin volunteer warriors.

    But it's long been my opinion that even in Jin Yong's alternate reality, the fall of Seung Yeung didn't come down to martial arts. If it did, the Han defenders would never have lost. Something else must have come into play...something that martial arts had no answer for.

  6. #26
    Senior Member odbayarb2000's Avatar
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    The fall of Xian Yang took place in 1273. We last saw Yideng alive in 1259.
    According to the source, by 1259, he was at least aged 110.

    He quite possibly died between 1259 and 1273, so for others Huang Yaoshi, Zhuo Botong, Yinggu and grand masters of Quanzhen sect.
    "Big Hero Linghu kills frogs with the Dugu Nine Swords!”


  7. #27
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Yea i think the Greats should've died by then.

    Just a random question that popped up. Why was WuYaZi so desperate, he was only like 90! (only) But his internal should be better than the Greats and Z3F, he should be well able to live over 110 (about 2 more decades to look for someone, then go desperate). Seeing how he lives in a cave so there shouldnt be much unseen harm done to him so why was he so worried lol :???

  8. #28
    Registered User JamesG's Avatar
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    Of course, there was no 'final battle' at Xiangyang.
    When the defenders saw the results of the use of the western invented counterweight trebuchet on a neighboring fortress, along with the lack of reinforcements, they wisely surrendered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesG View Post
    Of course, there was no 'final battle' at Xiangyang.
    When the defenders saw the results of the use of the western invented counterweight trebuchet on a neighboring fortress, along with the lack of reinforcements, they wisely surrendered.
    According to wiki, in the OTL, Guo Kan oversaw the assault on Fancheng, using technology learned from his conquest of the Caliphate. Lu Wenhuan, who in the OTL was a capable general rather than the snivelling coward Jinyong portrays him as, saw what was happening on the other side of the river, and surrendered Xiangyang rather than subject his troops and the inhabitants to slaughter after a hopeless defence.

    Battle of Xiangyang

    The counterweight trebuchets used by Guo Kan may have been a Byzantine design, transmitted to the Mongols via the Arabs.

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    lol, martial arts would have been useless in large scale warfare unless the feats described by Jin Yong were actually feasible. Who knows

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesG View Post
    Of course, there was no 'final battle' at Xiangyang.
    When the defenders saw the results of the use of the western invented counterweight trebuchet on a neighboring fortress, along with the lack of reinforcements, they wisely surrendered.
    GJ and WY would fight to their last breath than surrender to the low life Mongols. I wonder if Wah Jeng still alive when the Mongolians killed GJ and WY. If she was still alive, I wonder how she felt about it.

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