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Thread: The purity of Xiaoyao Sect's martial arts

  1. #1
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Default The purity of Xiaoyao Sect's martial arts

    In DGSD, Jiumozhi gently spoke to Shaolin in the famous "next to you" manner.
    This requires an extremely pure internal energy.
    Jiumozhi was only in his 40s, how could he have cultivated such pure internal energy?

    Earlier, when Jiumozhi spoke at the Celestial Dragon Monastery (CDM),
    it was not noted that his voice sounded gentle.
    In the 3rd ed, we learn that Jiumozhi at that time
    had NOT learned Xiaoyao Pai's Xiao Wuxiang Gong yet (Little Formless Skill).

    I believe the Little Formless Skill is what gave Jiumozhi such a pure internal base.
    In the Trilogy, only Yideng was able to gentle talk like Jiumozhi,
    and Yideng was more than 2x Jiumozhi's age.
    The other person whose internal was very pure is Zhang Sanfeng,
    and he is almost 3x Jiumozhi's age.
    For Jiumozhi to have cultivated such a pristine pure internal base by age 40-something,
    is really quite a feat.

    Anyway, although we cannot say that Jiumozhi with his own Tibetan internal energy
    definitely did not have a high purity, I do think that he was not capable of
    gentle-talking at the time of CDM incident yet.
    Because when he entered CDM, the circumstances were almost exactly the same
    as that of Shaolin. He went to challenge both of them.
    It would make sense that if he could do gentle talking at CDM, he would have.
    More importantly, we see that when he gentle-talked at Shaolin,
    he used Little Formless Skill to transmit the voice.
    This confirms that Little Formless Skill is the essence of Jiumozhi's internal purity.

    Jiumozhi practiced Little Formless Skill for less than 1 year,
    and he reached the stage of divinity in internal purity.
    Li Qiushui has practiced Little Formless Skill for 70+ years.
    If her internal is not at least a few times purer than Jiumozhi,
    I would have to say that she's an idiot (which we know she's not).
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    In DGSD, Jiumozhi gently spoke to Shaolin in the famous "next to you" manner.
    This requires an extremely pure internal energy.
    Jiumozhi was only in his 40s, how could he have cultivated such pure internal energy?

    Earlier, when Jiumozhi spoke at the Celestial Dragon Monastery (CDM),
    it was not noted that his voice sounded gentle.
    In the 3rd ed, we learn that Jiumozhi at that time
    had NOT learned Xiaoyao Pai's Xiao Wuxiang Gong yet (Little Formless Skill).

    I believe the Little Formless Skill is what gave Jiumozhi such a pure internal base.
    In the Trilogy, only Yideng was able to gentle talk like Jiumozhi,
    and Yideng was more than 2x Jiumozhi's age.
    The other person whose internal was very pure is Zhang Sanfeng,
    and he is almost 3x Jiumozhi's age.
    For Jiumozhi to have cultivated such a pristine pure internal base by age 40-something,
    is really quite a feat.
    There's also the case of Yang Guo at the Yang Tai Fu temple where he told Guo Xiang to use secret projectiles, but left Guo Fu completely unaware of his presence. Judging from Nimoxing's (lack of) reaction, it doesn't seem that he was aware of Yang Guo either, so it's not just Guo Fu's lack of ability.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    There's also the case of Yang Guo at the Yang Tai Fu temple where he told Guo Xiang to use secret projectiles, but left Guo Fu completely unaware of his presence. Judging from Nimoxing's (lack of) reaction, it doesn't seem that he was aware of Yang Guo either, so it's not just Guo Fu's lack of ability.
    Did you reply to the wrong topic?
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    There's also the case of Yang Guo at the Yang Tai Fu temple where he told Guo Xiang to use secret projectiles, but left Guo Fu completely unaware of his presence. Judging from Nimoxing's (lack of) reaction, it doesn't seem that he was aware of Yang Guo either, so it's not just Guo Fu's lack of ability.
    good point I have never thought of that
    but is this the same as "talking next to you" like JMZ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    good point I have never thought of that
    but is this the same as "talking next to you" like JMZ?
    It was focused enough to be heard by only one person in the vicinity, even though there was at least another person there with significant internal ability (Nimoxing). Yang Guo's internal is often described as huge, overbearing, and raw, but its purity is rarely mentioned.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    ..............
    Last edited by PJ; 03-14-08 at 04:35 PM.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    .................
    Last edited by PJ; 03-14-08 at 04:35 PM.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    I see what you're saying now, pannonian.
    Yang Guo's internal energy was almost always described as impure.
    I am not sure how he is able to transmit voices so delicately.
    But let's not forget that Duan Yanqing could do it even more impressively.
    When he "speaks" to someone privately without moving his lips,
    even Jiumozhi whose internal purity has reached the stage of divinity
    cannot notice a thing. Duan Yanqing probably had a special technique
    that allowed him to do so. I suspect Yang Guo may have done the same.
    I doubt it was general purity that allowed Yang Guo to transmit voice in such a delicate fashion;.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    doubt that YG had a special technique to do that when someone have reached a certain level of internal energy you can transmit voices over long distance. So it wouldn't be difficult for YG to do that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    doubt that YG had a special technique to do that when someone have reached a certain level of internal energy you can transmit voices over long distance. So it wouldn't be difficult for YG to do that
    I never said anything about transmitting voices across a long distance. That's easy to do and even fighters in the Qing dynasty can transmit clear voices over 5 Chinese miles (which is the maximum recorded in Jin Yong universe). What Yang Guo seemed to do though is selectively transmit voice to ONE person only, when there are several people present. This ability is much harder than simply transmitting voices abroad and is one which would seem to require a high degree of purity, which Yang Guo was never described as having.

    Imagine a room with 3 people. Yang Guo was behind them and when he talked, only one person in the room could hear him. That's what he did.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    I never said anything about transmitting voices across a long distance. That's easy to do and even fighters in the Qing dynasty can transmit clear voices over 5 Chinese miles (which is the maximum recorded in Jin Yong universe). What Yang Guo seemed to do though is selectively transmit voice to ONE person only, when there are several people present. This ability is much harder than simply transmitting voices abroad and is one which would seem to require a high degree of purity, which Yang Guo was never described as having.

    Imagine a room with 3 people. Yang Guo was behind them and when he talked, only one person in the room could hear him. That's what he did.
    so maybe YG's internal is pure after all

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    so maybe YG's internal is pure after all
    That would contradict the statement specifically saying that it was impure.

    It's not impossible for him to do so though. After all Duan Yanqing could do it via a special technique. And even Duan Yanqing's disciple Tan Qing could stir up sound without giving away his location.

    But if we're to keep the consistency between Yang Guo not having pure internal energy (stated in the book) AND him being able to perform Selective Talking, then we pretty much have to say that he had a special technique to do that.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    That would contradict the statement specifically saying that it was impure.

    It's not impossible for him to do so though. After all Duan Yanqing could do it via a special technique. And even Duan Yanqing's disciple Tan Qing could stir up sound without giving away his location.

    But if we're to keep the consistency between Yang Guo not having pure internal energy (stated in the book) AND him being able to perform Selective Talking, then we pretty much have to say that he had a special technique to do that.
    was it stated that his internal was impure? If you are thinking about the comment by 1 deng he could always be wrong. maybe the divine condor taught his the technique to do so

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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Perhaps the "impure" internal energy of a Great level person is still FAR more pure than the "average" high level pugilist.

    However, this would imply that the ability to speak like that selectively isn't that big of a deal for any Great level person (which isn't to say that it's not a big deal at all).

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    was it stated that his internal was impure? If you are thinking about the comment by 1 deng he could always be wrong. maybe the divine condor taught his the technique to do so
    I doubt Yideng was wrong. Yideng had the purest living internal energy by ROCH. He would definitely recognize when someone's internal energy is pure or not, especially since Yang Guo was doing a clear demonstration at that time.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
    Perhaps the "impure" internal energy of a Great level person is still FAR more pure than the "average" high level pugilist.

    However, this would imply that the ability to speak like that selectively isn't that big of a deal for any Great level person (which isn't to say that it's not a big deal at all).
    Now this is more of a gut feeling than anything... but I can't imagine Xiao Feng, Murong Bo, or Xiao Yuanshan being able to selectively transmit voice as Yang Guo did. And I don't believe Yang Guo has purer internal energy than the DGSD Big 3.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Now this is more of a gut feeling than anything... but I can't imagine Xiao Feng, Murong Bo, or Xiao Yuanshan being able to selectively transmit voice as Yang Guo did. And I don't believe Yang Guo has purer internal energy than the DGSD Big 3.
    But let's play around with this a bit. If, in the novel, Yang Guo had not specifically demonstrated his ability to selectively transmit voice, would you have been of the opinion that YG was capable of it?

    My answer would be 'no' as well. But, as we see, that evidently wasn't the case.

    Lack of evidence in the affirmative doesn't constitute evidence to the negative.
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    But let's play around with this a bit. If, in the novel, Yang Guo had not specifically demonstrated his ability to selectively transmit voice, would you have been of the opinion that YG was capable of it?

    My answer would be 'no' as well. But, as we see, that evidently wasn't the case.

    Lack of evidence in the affirmative doesn't constitute evidence to the negative.
    True.
    I guess the only way to say someone can't do something for sure is to pinpoint an occasion when they could have benefited from it, but didn't do it.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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