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Thread: Click HERE if you hate wire-fu...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Default Click HERE if you hate wire-fu...

    ...why do you hate it?

    I personally think that Wuxia series are GREAT with wire-fu. It's to show the lightness kungfu of the characters.

    Sure, sometimes the wire-fu is overdone, but it's better overdone than none.

    I'm pretty sure characters in the book can jump and leap pretty high so that is no real reason to be complaining either...

    So, if you hate wire-fu, what is your reason?

  2. #2
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    I don't hate wirefu as a matter of principle, but I do hate how, since the early 1990s, wirefu has been used by wuxia filmmakers as a *substitute* for actual fight choreography. When wirefu was first introduced in the late 1970s/early 1980s, it was used selectively to help supplement and accentuate the more grounded fighting scenes, not *replace* them. Since the 1990s, the prevailing attitude among wuxia filmmakers seems to have become, "Oh, well...we don't need to actually choreograph any fighting scenes as long as we keep the characters flying through the air all the time."

    *That's* what I don't like about the current state of wirefu.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    As long as the characters are not stuck on the floor all of the time, I'm fine. I need some jumping-onto-rooftop actions, you know?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogeyman View Post
    As long as the characters are not stuck on the floor all of the time, I'm fine. I need some jumping-onto-rooftop actions, you know?
    I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s. In those days, wuxia characters on television and film spent most of their time on their feet like the rest of us. They only took to the air when it was really called for (i.e. their lives depended on it). Nowadays, it seems like they carry on conversations about their life routines while in the air.

    Drama is created by saving up the BIG stuff for special and rare occassions, not blowing it up front.

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    As long as the characters are not stuck on the floor all of the time, I'm fine. I need some jumping-onto-rooftop actions, you know?
    you saw ROCH 06 china version?? they were dancing in mid air...

    And also, the umbrella scene....SHOOOOSH!!!!!



    I don't hate wirefu as a matter of principle, but I do hate how, since the early 1990s, wirefu has been used by wuxia filmmakers as a *substitute* for actual fight choreography. When wirefu was first introduced in the late 1970s/early 1980s, it was used selectively to help supplement and accentuate the more grounded fighting scenes, not *replace* them. Since the 1990s, the prevailing attitude among wuxia filmmakers seems to have become, "Oh, well...we don't need to actually choreograph any fighting scenes as long as we keep the characters flying through the air all the time."

    *That's* what I don't like about the current state of wirefu.
    Well said.....

  6. #6
    Senior Member dewyloony123's Avatar
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    Ditto Ken. Worst of all (for me) is that they make fights illogical in this sense: if you were a xia with all those fantastical qinggong/neigong abilities, you would NEVER do the stupid stuff wire-fu makes you do because it would get yourself killed. Wire-fu enables sloppy martial arts choreography.

    For example: check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0KFa...eature=related around 6:59. That stupid circling around with swords stuff is just dancey junk.

    Or in Sword Stained with Royal Blood 2007, they had YCZ fight the (Taoist villiain whose name I have forgot) on top of wide rope netting that had daggers underneath it, just so they could add in a gratuitous thrill element.

    Worse yet, the Golden Snake Sword technique when performed looked like the futile flops a fish makes on land and looked equally futile when performed by a human actor. You can see the first in the trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrIt9edDwqI, 2:08)--unfortunately, fish flops are not forthcoming.

    Thank you, gratuitous wire-ful.
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    Senior Member dewyloony123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QF View Post
    you saw ROCH 06 china version?? they were dancing in mid air...

    And also, the umbrella scene....SHOOOOSH!!!!!
    oh goodness, can't believe I forgot that scene--that was ridiculous! ARGH!
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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dewyloony123 View Post

    Or in Sword Stained with Royal Blood 2007, they had YCZ fight the (Taoist villiain whose name I have forgot) on top of wide rope netting that had daggers underneath it, just so they could add in a gratuitous thrill element.
    Although they did that just for the thrill, it's not like the Yuan Chengzhi in the book couldn't do that. With qinggong, doing things like walking on rope is VERY easy.

  9. #9
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    I hate the term Wire-fu far more than the phenomenon it represents.
    It sounds distasteful to me.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dewyloony123 View Post

    Worse yet, the Golden Snake Sword technique when performed looked like the futile flops a fish makes on land and looked equally futile when performed by a human actor. You can see the first in the trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrIt9edDwqI, 2:08)--unfortunately, fish flops are not forthcoming.
    If you're talking about the move at 1:40, I actually think that move is cool. It's not exactly wire-fu though. He was nowhere in the air...

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    I think the use of wire-fu helped the fight scenes in TVB. If you look at the fight scenes in the old kung fu serials, the moves they use are always the same from serial to serial. The wire-fu added a different element that spiced things up.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Chen View Post
    I think the use of wire-fu helped the fight scenes in TVB. If you look at the fight scenes in the old kung fu serials, the moves they use are always the same from serial to serial. The wire-fu added a different element that spiced things up.
    It certainly did. Wirefu brought a whole new dimension to 1980s wuxia drama production that had simply not been available before. All the great TVB wuxia dramas of the 1980s would not have been the same without wirefu.

    That said, it worked because in those days, TVB was very selective and strategic about when and how to use wirefu. They didn't use it at the drop of a hat. Because of their measured, thoughtful use of limited wirefu, TVB was able to use it to facilitate the storytelling, not distract from it (which is what the current generation of wuxia filmmakers tends to do).

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    Senior Member dewyloony123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogeyman View Post
    If you're talking about the move at 1:40, I actually think that move is cool. It's not exactly wire-fu though. He was nowhere in the air...
    Congratulations. You found the fish flop.

    It's not something you could do without the support of a wire.

    Cool is in the eye of the beholder--but from a martial arts standpoint, that's just stupid. Throw yourself on the ground and flop?? You lose chances to attack. As for defense, the enemy will just try to impale you, and you can't defend against that. Conveniently enough, Golden Snake Swordsman's enemies weren't doing the logical thing (impaling him) because their moves were also choreographed by the same dude.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dewyloony123 View Post
    ...

    For example: check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0KFa...eature=related around 6:59. That stupid circling around with swords stuff is just dancey junk.

    ...
    Unfortunately the example given above at 6:59 is not wire-fu but CGI. I believe a lot of folks who enjoyed 70's and 80's kung fu flicks have mixed up wire-fu with CGI.

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    Senior Member dewyloony123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogeyman View Post
    Although they did that just for the thrill, it's not like the Yuan Chengzhi in the book couldn't do that. With qinggong, doing things like walking on rope is VERY easy.
    Yes, but that was so pointless. For a gladiator fight, that setup would be a "cool" trick--a wonder the Romans didn't think of it first, since they were great at the sadistic/cheap thrills. But for a martial arts meet with the purpose of selecting a leader??

    IMHO

    (1) Wire-fu in principle is fine, but
    (2) Wire-fu should not be done gratuitously, because
    (3) Wire-fu has to make fighting-sense, and because
    (4) Wire-fu needs to fit in the context of the story.
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    Senior Member sarakoth's Avatar
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    In adaptations, the weakest fighters have qinggong superior to the best of the best of the best of all time in the novels

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    Senior Member dewyloony123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortsight View Post
    Unfortunately the example given above at 6:59 is not wire-fu but CGI. I believe a lot of folks who enjoyed 70's and 80's kung fu flicks have mixed up wire-fu with CGI.
    Not the chi-waves--I mean the acrobatics and jumpin' around. And actually, I should've been clearer--I meant the stuff starting from 6:59.

    Actually, I haven't seen '70s kung-fu flicks--some '80s movies, but more of the TV shows.
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    Senior Member redfirefly124's Avatar
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    Wire-fu makes wuxia look cooler. I actually really like that umbrella scene in ROCH.
    hu ge, yang mi, yuan hong, liu shishi.
    wang luodan, li guangjie.

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    I actually really like that umbrella scene in ROCH.
    HAHA...i know you are just joking.

    Next thing you're gonna tell me that you like Tian Gui Nong learning the Left/Right hand technique and beating the crap out of Miao Ren Feng..


    QF

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    Registered User JamesG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarakoth View Post
    In adaptations, the weakest fighters have qinggong superior to the best of the best of the best of all time in the novels
    'Cause they need it to get away from the really good fighters?

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