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Thread: I've decided to learn Chinese.

  1. #161
    Senior Member sniffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xianzai View Post
    The reading should become easier as you go along from chapter to chapter.

    I didn't do the exercises in that book; I feel I learn more when I can check the answers, like in Chinese Grammar.
    The reading is definitely getting easier. It took me weeks to interpret the first couple of pages, but I finished the last two pages of Chapter 1 in a couple of hours. That's still awfully slow for me - in English I can read a page per minute! But I felt very successful when I did those two pages so quickly.

    It is a little annoying that the book doesn't give answers for the exercises. I know there isn't necessarily only one "right" answer for each item. But it would be nice to have some examples of how to complete the exercise items. It would also have been nice if they had given all the characters from the story in the vocabulary sections instead of just some of them.

    Doing the exercises is helping me to understand some sentences in the story that I had difficulty interpreting, though.
    你看这些云彩,聚了又散,散了又聚,人生离合也是一样。

  2. #162
    Member xianzai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sniffles View Post
    It would also have been nice if they had given all the characters from the story in the vocabulary sections instead of just some of them.
    The book was originally meant to be used with (after?) the old book Read Chinese book 1 from Yale Press. So the vocabulary not listed in LitP is in that book. I don't recommend picking it up, as it doesn't use Pinyin romanization. It was helpful in that the way it defined words was the same way they were used in the story, not listing lots of definitions like one would find in a dictionary.

    Doing the exercises is helping me to understand some sentences in the story that I had difficulty interpreting, though.
    Be aware that the grammar difficulty and the sentence length increase throughout the book. I'm sure I missed some grammar points while reading. It's probably best to take it slower than I did and be sure of what each sentence means before going to the next one. Sometimes the grammar notes will explain hard sentences.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by xianzai View Post
    Be aware that the grammar difficulty and the sentence length increase throughout the book. I'm sure I missed some grammar points while reading. It's probably best to take it slower than I did and be sure of what each sentence means before going to the next one. Sometimes the grammar notes will explain hard sentences.
    Yes, I noticed that the sentence complexity increases. During my lunch hour I went to a bookstore and took a look at a grammar book written by Claudia Ross, the woman who worked on The Lady in the Painting. But I'm not sure if I want to pick that one up or try one of her other books. One nice feature I noticed, though, was that the grammar book included the text in both Simplified and Traditional characters.

    I was rather pleased with myself that I was able to identify 80% of the characters on the first page of Chapter 2 of The Lady in the Painting within about 20 minutes. Now interpreting the meaning of the sentences is a different story!
    你看这些云彩,聚了又散,散了又聚,人生离合也是一样。

  4. #164
    Registered User JamesG's Avatar
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    I saw an ad on TV tonight that made me think of you guys and your language studies. A daughter comes home with her new boyfriend and introduces him to her mom and dad. Then she mentions that he speaks Spanish. Dad rushes from the room and goes online to look for Spanish lessons. He comes back on a minute or two and proceeds to speak Spanish to the boyfriend. I think it was one of those ‘if life was easy’ ads.
    Now I'll get back to my editing duties.

  5. #165
    Senior Member sniffles's Avatar
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    I had my first reading and writing class last night. It was a little intimidating. All of the other students had taken a conversation class with a different instructor than the instructor I'm taking the conversational class with, and had used a different textbook. The instructor of the reading/writing class uses the other textbook, so now I'm going to have to buy and get familiarized with a different book.

    The instructor also told us that because handwriting characters isn't taught much in Chinese schools now, we'll be learning to type the characters on our laptops. My laptop was acting funny last week so I hope it holds up for the class. I want to buy a new one but can't really afford it at the moment. The instructor said we didn't need to install any software for the class, which I thought was odd. Luckily I already have NJStar installed.
    你看这些云彩,聚了又散,散了又聚,人生离合也是一样。

  6. #166
    Senior Member sniffles's Avatar
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    I'm glad I enrolled in two classes this term. I get much more conversation practice this way.

    We're also learning a little about writing characters in the second class after all, which is helping me to use my character recognition book more effectively. I sometimes had a hard time figuring out how many strokes were in a character and I didn't really understand the radicals, so it would take me a long time to find a character in the index. I've gotten much faster at it after having had only two sessions of classroom instruction on characters!
    你看这些云彩,聚了又散,散了又聚,人生离合也是一样。

  7. #167
    Member xianzai's Avatar
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    I finally started on the Traditional Chinese Tales book, which only uses 600 different characters. So far it's pretty easy, so The Lady in the Painting (300 characters) must have really helped my reading skillz. After I get through this I will tackle actual Gu Long wuxia.

  8. #168
    Senior Member sniffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xianzai View Post
    I finally started on the Traditional Chinese Tales book, which only uses 600 different characters. So far it's pretty easy, so The Lady in the Painting (300 characters) must have really helped my reading skillz. After I get through this I will tackle actual Gu Long wuxia.
    I'm on Chapter 5 of The Lady in the Painting now. When I started I had to write the pinyin underneath the characters. Now I just do it for characters I haven't seen before, or occasionally when I forget a character. I was able to read most of the chapter without looking anything up in my character-identification book.

    I've got a children's illustrated edition of Xi You Ji waiting to be my next reading effort. The only trouble is, it's in simplified characters and Lady in the Painting is traditional. I had to buy a second character book! But after I finish that one I think I'll be able to take a stab at some Jin Yong.
    你看这些云彩,聚了又散,散了又聚,人生离合也是一样。

  9. #169
    Member xianzai's Avatar
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    I tried an experiment. I took screencaps of a VCD of a Chu Yuan film (with Chinese/English subs), and tried to build a list of vocabulary from it. The results are a mixed bag. I could figure out some of the characters by writing them into the handwriting recognition system of Pleco, or by searching for the English term in the subtitles. But there are lots of characters which are just a blurred mess of white in parts because of the low resolution of the VCD.

    I'm going to see if I have better luck with the DVD of the film.

    The reason for the effort is that the vocabulary used in wuxia films is so different than what I learn in class.

  10. #170
    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xianzai View Post
    I tried an experiment. I took screencaps of a VCD of a Chu Yuan film (with Chinese/English subs), and tried to build a list of vocabulary from it. The results are a mixed bag. I could figure out some of the characters by writing them into the handwriting recognition system of Pleco, or by searching for the English term in the subtitles. But there are lots of characters which are just a blurred mess of white in parts because of the low resolution of the VCD.

    I'm going to see if I have better luck with the DVD of the film.

    The reason for the effort is that the vocabulary used in wuxia films is so different than what I learn in class.
    I wouldn't try to learn chinese this way if you are using subtitles of english in those movies.

    They are notorious for their liberties in translation.

    Han Solo
    Wuxiapedia

    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    I think they're probably at the same level as or one level below Ah Qing, which is about the level of a 2nd or 3rd generation Quan Zhen disciple.
    Troll Control

  11. #171
    Member xianzai's Avatar
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    I wouldn't try to learn chinese this way if you are using subtitles of english in those movies.

    They are notorious for their liberties in translation.
    When I looked up the English, I would see if it matched the Chinese characters in the subtitles and only then add the Chinese to the vocabulary list.

    I just need some way to 'get' more of the vocabulary used in these films, as I'm not very good at picking up new Chinese words by listening. Early on I did pick up 哭 and 怕 but they are used quite frequently in Shaw Brothers films.

  12. #172
    Senior Member sniffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xianzai View Post
    When I looked up the English, I would see if it matched the Chinese characters in the subtitles and only then add the Chinese to the vocabulary list.

    I just need some way to 'get' more of the vocabulary used in these films, as I'm not very good at picking up new Chinese words by listening. Early on I did pick up 哭 and 怕 but they are used quite frequently in Shaw Brothers films.
    That's how I've learned a lot of new vocubulary words and short phrases. My listening skills have improved enough that sometimes I can tell when the English sub has deviated significantly from the Chinese dialogue.

    I've been trying to read some characters from a VCD, too, but fortunately the subtitles on the show I'm watching must be better quality than your movies, xianzai. I deliberately chose a series with a modern setting so the dialogue would be more natural. Sometimes wuxia dialogue sounds like Shakespearean drama.
    你看这些云彩,聚了又散,散了又聚,人生离合也是一样。

  13. #173
    Senior Member sniffles's Avatar
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    I'm nearly finished with Chapter 6 of The Lady in the Painting. But I wish there was someplace I could see an English translation of it so I would know if my interpretations of the sentences are accurate. I can't ask my teachers because there just isn't enough time in class.
    你看这些云彩,聚了又散,散了又聚,人生离合也是一样。

  14. #174
    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    You can try post the original and the translations (i.e. scan them) here and ask for some helpful members to help.

    Han Solo
    Wuxiapedia

    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    I think they're probably at the same level as or one level below Ah Qing, which is about the level of a 2nd or 3rd generation Quan Zhen disciple.
    Troll Control

  15. #175
    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    More recent subtitles have more competent translators working on them, but yes older movie with English subs are horrendously translated.

    Usually, you lose a lot of the subtleties in translation anyway, especially since it takes a longer line to say something in English that you can express in like 4 chinese characters.
    What are you fighting for? Just mix them into pissing beef balls, stupid.
    SOD Pt. 7 updated Jan. 6, '08

    Jiang Bao's Karaoke Corner

  16. #176
    Senior Member sniffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
    You can try post the original and the translations (i.e. scan them) here and ask for some helpful members to help.

    Han Solo
    I'd thought about doing that but was afraid of imposing on others. But maybe I'll give it a try.

    I wish I could just paste the characters from the cd-rom that came with the book, but you can't highlight and copy those. I've tried.

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang bao
    Usually, you lose a lot of the subtleties in translation anyway, especially since it takes a longer line to say something in English that you can express in like 4 chinese characters.
    Since I started learning Chinese I've become a little less critical of the subtitles. It's hard work to translate, and Chinese people talk so much faster than English speakers.

    It's hard to get the timing right, too, so that the text appears while the dialogue is being said. That's where the issue of needing more words to say something in English than in Chinese really becomes a problem. By the time the subtitles get one line of dialogue converted into English, the actors have already said three or four more lines. If they translated all the words, the subtitles would appear on the screen too fast for even the fastest reader to read them - I've seen that happen sometimes.

    It still annoys me when they leave out whole lines of dialogue, or change something really significantly, but I'm willing to forgive the subtitles if they give the general gist of what was said, even if it's not completely accurate.
    Last edited by sniffles; 02-26-09 at 03:00 PM.
    你看这些云彩,聚了又散,散了又聚,人生离合也是一样。

  17. #177
    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    You can always do a screen capture: press ALT + "Print Screen", then open a photo editor and paste the image.

    Dr. Han is pledging support as the go-to guy I think.
    What are you fighting for? Just mix them into pissing beef balls, stupid.
    SOD Pt. 7 updated Jan. 6, '08

    Jiang Bao's Karaoke Corner

  18. #178
    Senior Member sniffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiang bao View Post
    You can always do a screen capture: press ALT + "Print Screen", then open a photo editor and paste the image.

    Dr. Han is pledging support as the go-to guy I think.
    Now why didn't I think of that?!! I do screen captures all the time at work. D'oh!!
    你看这些云彩,聚了又散,散了又聚,人生离合也是一样。

  19. #179
    Senior Member sniffles's Avatar
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    I'm disappointed. I just found out that the instructor I've taken conversation classes with for two terms isn't teaching anything but the beginning course this term. And the community college canceled the third term class I was planning to take.

    I don't want to go a whole term without taking a class, but my only options are either to repeat the second term class that I've already taken but with a different instructor, or take a class through some other source, which will cost more. Or just skip a term and hope that the instructor I like will teach the Term 2 class again during the summer.

    He does private tutoring, but it costs $35 an hour.
    你看这些云彩,聚了又散,散了又聚,人生离合也是一样。

  20. #180
    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    FOr 35 an hour, you can prolly find anyone to tutor you. Heck if you were in my city, I'd tutor ya. Heck x2, even if you didn't wanna learn, I'd force teach you at that rate.

    But seriously, you can probably find someone to teach you at a cheaper price. Just don't hire anyone Taiwanese if you wanna learn proper mandarin. Or at least make sure the Taiwanese person doesn't speak lazy mandarin.
    What are you fighting for? Just mix them into pissing beef balls, stupid.
    SOD Pt. 7 updated Jan. 6, '08

    Jiang Bao's Karaoke Corner

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