Romance of the Three Kingdoms

[expression]

I read a few Nobel prize-winning Western novels at school & college and I thought they were sh!thouse. In fact, they're so sh!t that I can't even remember the titles. I think they only give Nobel prizes to people who can bore the brains out of readers.

Man, how I agree with you. Those Nobel giants even decided that us Chinese novelists are sooo sucky they have to give one to the sucky Pearl S. Buck who wrote sucky novels about us Chinese just to boo us. Humans, so cruel.

I'm sorry but Vietnam is probably not significant enough for them to bother to spike. Might be for the better ya know.

[shen diao xia]

Shit! It's been two months now and yet I still can't finish the damn book. It is indeed terrible reading .

[expression]

Option 1: Persevere.
Option 2: Watch John Woo's Battle of Red Cliff (unknown risk).
Option 3: Rent the 1994 series (recommended but patience required).
Option 4: Read San Guo Zhi (not a bad read).
Option 5: Play Dynasty Warriors 1-6 (guilty pleasure and best way to learn names).
Option 6: Forget it altogether.

[shen diao xia]

My son does Option 5 and you are right, he probably knows more about the characters than me. Right now, I am leaning towards Option 6

[expression]

Aw, play Dynasty Warriors with your son then. Don't give up on Chinese history!

[shen diao xia]

I'm not. It's not even history to begin with. To make it even worse, it's not too good as fiction too. I should really try reading the Dream of the Red Chambers to restore my faith in Chinese novels .

[owbjhx]

I should really try reading the Dream of the Red Chambers to restore my faith in Chinese novels .

If you can stand the girlie-girlieness of it and you have a taste for literary fiction, I'd recommend it. And when you're done, come and post in the "New Hong Lou Meng" thread (in the Mainland China TV Series subforum) about the upcoming TV adaptation. I'm getting a bit bored in there talking to myself...

In my opinion, the only English-language edition of it worth reading is the 5-volume translation by David Hawkes, titled "The Story of the Stone". It's a wide-screen, surround-sound epic of a translation, bursting with virtuosity and flair. Don't bother with anything else.

[expression]

Ahem, it's an interpretation of Chinese history (although everything is an interpretation of sth)...

It does suck as a novel, well, depending on your standards. I still say, read and enjoy our poems. Truly gem-packed in that field.

Are they making a New Red Chamber series? I vaguely remember reading about it.

[owbjhx]

Are they making a New Red Chamber series? I vaguely remember reading about it.

Yep. Might be a good one, too: http://ent.sina.com.cn/f/v/hongloumeng/

[Lifeburner]

I don't really know about the percentages of historical and fictional parts of the romance. But I do know that many of the events are fictional. For example, history never records anything about the "oath at the peach garden" and thus many people doubt it ever happened.

As for the translation, I think there's a good english trans at threekingdom.com, done by C.H. Brewitt-Taylor, edited by Snow N. Snow.

And if you want to REALLY learn about the names, forget Dinasty Warrior. There's no such thing as 'Sun Shangxiang'! Even the novel only mentioned her name as 'Lady Sun'. Try Romance of The Three Kingdoms series (in PS2) or the Dragon Throne for PC. They're better at names, containing more than 200 names altogether.

However, most major characters can be found in DW series, so if you want to take a quick look, it's a fine game (just don't pay attention to Shangxiang and Zhang Fei's daughter, and you'll be fine).

[shen diao xia]

I don't really know about the percentages of historical and fictional parts of the romance. But I do know that many of the events are fictional. For example, history never records anything about the "oath at the peach garden" and thus many people doubt it ever happened.

As for the translation, I think there's a good english trans at threekingdom.com, done by C.H. Brewitt-Taylor, edited by Snow N. Snow.

Please read the whole thread before posting!

[Lifeburner]

Yeah, I know. It's another Brewitt-Taylor trans. But the language is pretty good, so I thought I'd just include it in my post.

[expression]

I myself hijacked the thread for a long while so I can't say anything to this.

But anyhow I won't recommend the latest Dynasty Warriors for history lessons because the characters don't even look ancient Chinese anymore.

[Candide]

But anyhow I won't recommend the latest Dynasty Warriors for history lessons because the characters don't even look ancient Chinese anymore.

They look like K-pop/J-pop pretty boys who spend way too much time doing their hair and taking care of their skin before battles.

[Lifeburner]

They look like K-pop/J-pop pretty boys who spend way too much time doing their hair and taking care of their skin before battles.

Huh? What K-pop?

But I do agree that Koei is making way too many changes regarding their true characters. Take Lu Xun for example. He's not actually a pyromaniac. His achievement in using fire was even below Kongming's or Zhou Yu's. The latter two had the exact same thing in mind when facing Wei's one million troops, and both wrote the same character on their palms: Fire. Why is Lu Xun the pyromaniac then? Koei is going a bit too far here.

[expression]

K for Korean?

Anyway here's a comparison of several unfortunate morphed specimens from dynasty warriors 5 to 6. They weren't conventional in DW5 anyway, but at least I can tell they are Chinese. Their makeover in DW6 totally passed my threshold of comprehension.

Zhao Yun is not that bad, really. From Chinese general to medieval knight, still chivalrous:
$this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/expressionexp/Dynasty%20warriors%205%206/Zhaoyun5-1.jpg') => $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/expressionexp/Dynasty%20warriors%205%206/Zhaoyun6-1.jpg')

Lord Zhou Yu... hmmm... Were those pixie boots on sale or sth?
$this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/expressionexp/Dynasty%20warriors%205%206/Zhouyu5-1.jpg') => $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/expressionexp/Dynasty%20warriors%205%206/zhouyu6-1.png')

Lady Zhuge just became Mrs. Robin Hood:
$this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/expressionexp/Dynasty%20warriors%205%206/yueying5-1.jpg') => $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/expressionexp/Dynasty%20warriors%205%206/yueying6-1.png')

Ms. Sun Shangxiang, no, putting a little lotus on your pixie outfit doesn't make you Chinese:
$this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/expressionexp/Dynasty%20warriors%205%206/SSXiang5-1.jpg') => $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/expressionexp/Dynasty%20warriors%205%206/SSxiang6-1.png')

And Lu Xun, just because you like playing with fire doesn't make you Prince Phoenix of India my dear:
$this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/expressionexp/Dynasty%20warriors%205%206/luxun5-1.jpg') => $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/expressionexp/Dynasty%20warriors%205%206/luxun6-1.png')

[flyingfox2002]

expression, it's all about how you view it. You're only focusing on the popular views of those novels.

Guo Jing the character taught me a few things:

- The price for seeking revenge is huge.
- The world is lots of shades of grey and not black & white, but take a stance and believe in it.
- If you're stupid enough to get married, find a woman who can cook (which basically excludes most modern women).

ROCH taught me:

- Don't be a whiny pu$$y like Yang Guo when he was young.
- Do not waste your youth for a melodramatic socially retarded starfish.

DGSD:

- Duan Yu: preaching is only effective if you have the fire power to back it up.
- Xu Zhu: sins are awesome. That's why religions don't want you to commit them.
- Xiao Feng: don't let yourself be manipulated or emotionally attached to women. Even great men like Xiao Feng get destroyed that way.

HSDS:

- The more beautiful a woman is, the better she is at manipulation (what ZWJ's mum told him).
- A beautiful woman is dangerous to have around, even if you're the best fighter in wulin (ZWJ nearly got killed many times indirectly because of Zhao Min and Zhou Zhi Ruo).
- Best way to make a girl attracted to you is to be mean: bite her hand (young Yin Li), humiliate her sifu in public (Zhou Zhi Ruo), torture her by tickling her feet (Zhao Min), treat her indifferently as if she's a little girl (Xiao Zhao).
- Best way to make a girl lose her attraction for you is to be nice to her and promise you'd take care of her and marry her (adult Yin Li).

That's just off the top of my head.

And my life is far from monotonous.

owbjhx, I agree. I don't learn historical stuff through novels. It's like using wikipedia for a research paper, which kids do these days. You're right, it's the human experience that counts. For me, beautifully written lines are just fluff.

The young YG was a whiny pussy? XLN was melodramatic??

You are free to hate on them all you want, but at least be fair about it. There are so many things you can hate him for failry: Hate YG for being stubborn. Hate him for being self-pitying. Hate him for being a hothead. Just to name a few.

A whiny pussy he is not.

As for XLN, hate her for being cold. Hate her for being self centered. But melodramatic she is not.

The kind of stuff you YG bashers make up are ridiculous.

[expression]

- Do not waste your youth for a melodramatic socially retarded starfish.

Maybe he meant Mr. Diu (Condor)?

[flyingfox2002]

Maybe he meant Mr. Diu (Condor)?

Haha yeah condors have been known to throw hissy fits.

[Lifeburner]

Now expression, that is EXACTLY what I meant!

I've never seen the new outfits in DW6 before, but this is too much! Most of them has been turned into westerners

1. Zhao Yun should stay a Chinese general, period.
2. Zhou Yu did NOT wield a staff (or was that a spear? I can't see clearly). His actual weapon was a sword.
3. Now this is bad from the very beginning. Lady Huang Yue Ying was NOT a warrior I believe in the local legends, she was known for her brain instead of brawn.
4. Sun Shangxiang was a tomboy. Her old outfit suited her better.
5. Lu Xun wasn't a pyromaniac for God's sake. And he's not that young. I remember one of the novel's version described him with a moustache and beard.

Koei pisses me off big time.....