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Thread: Was Zhao Min taking a risk going up to Wudang?

  1. #1
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Default Was Zhao Min taking a risk going up to Wudang?

    She only found out that Zhang SanFeng was seriously injured when she saw him spitting blood. Zhao Min will be someone to do things shes 100% confident with. However she took the chance that Z3F might not have been hurt by KongXiang. Or was she actually confident that her mob would overpower Z3F anyway?

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    ZM was a smart schemer but she greatly underestimated the Chinese Wulin. She was shocked when ZWJ easily owned her top 3 underlings.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    I think she was well-equipped. Even if Zhang Sanfeng hadn't been injured, it would difficult for him to face the combined forces of 2 Xuanming Elders + Eight-Armed Swordsman Fang Dongbai (with the Heavenly Sword) + Ah Er + Ah San.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Based on the limited intel available, it's not hard to see why Chiu Mun might have been slightly overconfident going into Mt. Mo Dong. Before she was even born, her father's underlings had utterly destroyed Yu Doi Nam (all right, he was immobilized by the Mosquito Whisker Needles of Yan So So, but even if he were fully mobile, it's not likely he could have beaten the likes of Ah 2 and Ah 3). Moreover, one of the Yeun Ming Elders was enough to seriously injure Yu Lin Chou, considered the best fighter among the Mo Dong 7 Heroes. More recently, Chiu Mun had succeeded in imprisoning the prominent figures of Chinese wulin (albeit through subterfuge rather than force). Given that record of success, it's not surprising that she went up to Mt. Mo Dong with an ample fund of confidence, especially since Sing Kwun had already softened up the opposition by sending his would-be assassin in advance.

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    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    I see, but if ZWJ pwned the 3 of them. Wouldnt Z3F do it same if he was uninjured? Z3F severely injured thought he could beat Ah3. Or will ZM just do a gang fight and all VS Z3F. Epic stuff...

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    I think what made it a risk worth taking, other than Cheung 3 Fung being injured, is that none of the Mo Dong 7 Heroes was there other than the crippled Yu Doi Nam. If the Mo Dong Heroes had been there, Chiu Mun probably wouldn't have risked it. Not with that crazy exponential formation of theirs. Even with just five Mo Dong Heroes and a healthy Cheung 3 Fung, it would have been brutal for the Mongols.

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    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    Z3F would of course pwnd the 3 of them just like ZWJ did. But that wouldnt matter. If ZM sees that they are loosing in fair fights, then she would just overwhelm Wudan with her army. Dont think she cares about fair play. So in a sense, it doesnt matter if the fake monk succeced or not.

    She only gave up because she found out ZWJ's connection with Wudan.

    And another odd thing. Why didnt ZM knew about ZWJ and Wudan? After the fight at Ming peak, I bet everybody there would talk about the fact that ZWJ is who he is. And surely, she must have had spies among the crowd to report back that the plan failed because some unknown Wudan guy showed up?

    So why was she surprised to learn that ZWJ's father was wudan 5th hero?
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

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    Senior Member odbayarb2000's Avatar
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    That's a plot device.
    "Big Hero Linghu kills frogs with the Dugu Nine Swords!


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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odbayarb2000 View Post
    That's a plot device.
    I like HSDS, but I find it might be one of the most sloppily written of Jin Yong's stories. It seems to have more than its fair share of logical breakdowns and impasses. Every story has them, but HSDS seems to have more of them.

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    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    And ZM had already dined with Ming cult and talked about the fight at Ming peak before she showed up at Wudan.
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

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    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Not only I like HSDS itself, i also like ZM's character (probably due to Alyssa Chia's portrayal). I would hate to see her getting smashed by Z3F

    However I think ZM would've ganged on ZWJ and injured Z3F if likes of Yang Xiao, Yin Tianzhen, Wei Yixiao did not turn up. I think she had quite enough firepower, to think of it...

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    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    Not only I like HSDS itself, i also like ZM's character (probably due to Alyssa Chia's portrayal). I would hate to see her getting smashed by Z3F

    However I think ZM would've ganged on ZWJ and injured Z3F if likes of Yang Xiao, Yin Tianzhen, Wei Yixiao did not turn up. I think she had quite enough firepower, to think of it...
    Im not saying that she didnt have enough firepower. I think she backed down because of just him, because she had already fallen for him.
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odbayarb2000 View Post
    That's a plot device.
    No, it's called a gathering of clueless guys (right here in this thread) who don't understand women and attraction. You lot are looking for Zhao Min acting logical. Nuh nuh, not gonna happen with that beautiful and wild girl. It makes perfect sense to me that she'd do that knowing ZWJ's connection with Wudang just to spite him. I mean, after all, he "humiliated" her earlier by tying her up and tickling her bare feet.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    No, it's called a gathering of clueless guys (right here in this thread) who don't understand women and attraction. You lot are looking for Zhao Min acting logical. Nuh nuh, not gonna happen with that beautiful and wild girl. It makes perfect sense to me that she'd do that knowing ZWJ's connection with Wudang just to spite him. I mean, after all, he "humiliated" her earlier by tying her up and tickling her bare feet.

    Hmm but i was under the impression that Zhao Min genuinely wanted to destroy Wudang and only found out ZWJ and Ming Clan was there when she actually got there. It was also explained quite clearly that she was surprised to see ZWJ and the Ming Clan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnhHung View Post
    Im not saying that she didnt have enough firepower. I think she backed down because of just him, because she had already fallen for him.
    haha yea shes fallen for ZWJ by then... cant stand those ticklelish feet...

    anyway yea i was saying she really wanted Wudang gone and I thought her mob should be able to fight ZWJ+injured Z3F and not hurt ZWJ () since she likes him so much. But the appearance of so many Ming Clan elites made it impossible.

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    Hmm but i was under the impression that Zhao Min genuinely wanted to destroy Wudang and only found out ZWJ and Ming Clan was there when she actually got there. It was also explained quite clearly that she was surprised to see ZWJ and the Ming Clan.
    She was only surprised to see him get there so fast. The rest of it was just a show.

    Look at her behaviours afterwards as well. She gave Wuji poison instead of the actual antidote for his martial uncles' injuries, just because he didn't say please, thank you my fair lady, and forced him to make her some BS promises so that he'd keep thinking of her instead of that other young pretty miss who stabbed him in the chest that she knew about, and showed her jealousy & awareness of this competition to him once.

    And if you guys keep on saying "but...but...Zhao Min clearly said blah blah blah"...she lied.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    She was only surprised to see him get there so fast. The rest of it was just a show.

    Look at her behaviours afterwards as well. She gave Wuji poison instead of the actual antidote for his martial uncles' injuries, just because he didn't say please, thank you my fair lady, and forced him to make her some BS promises so that he'd keep thinking of her instead of that other young pretty miss who stabbed him in the chest that she knew about, and showed her jealousy & awareness of this competition to him once.

    And if you guys keep on saying "but...but...Zhao Min clearly said blah blah blah"...she lied.
    lol i think you are looking too deeply... If Zhao Min was what you said to be, it would've been mentioned in the novel, as narration. She didnt expect ZWJ and Ming Clan to be there, nuff said.

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    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    And if you guys keep on saying "but...but...Zhao Min clearly said blah blah blah"...she lied.
    I like the way you think.
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

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    Senior Member babyblues's Avatar
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    She know Wuji's background clearly. That's why she treated Wudang Five Heroes better than the other clans. She did not want to create an irreparable breach between them but still wanted to take over wulin. She was still of the hope she would be able to persuade him and others to submit to the Yuan dynasty.

    Therefore she still wanted to take over Wudang but with minimal damage. Sending a spy up to hopefully weaken ZSF, will increase the chances that she can do so without trampling Wudang. Even if he wasn't weakened, she probably had backup plans to make him surrender. Don't forget she still has her hostages, his beloved disciples. Alone and elderly,this could be enough pressure to make him physically submit to her and therefore buy her some time to persuade him too.

    When Wuji showed up with the other Ming Sect experts, she knew her plan was not going to work. She could only retreat but she still managed to strike a bargain to her advantage, i.e. Wuji has to agree to do 3 acts for her.

    So I felt even in this, she handled and planned the situation very well, especially in light of the surprising change in event.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I think what made it a risk worth taking, other than Cheung 3 Fung being injured, is that none of the Mo Dong 7 Heroes was there other than the crippled Yu Doi Nam. If the Mo Dong Heroes had been there, Chiu Mun probably wouldn't have risked it. Not with that crazy exponential formation of theirs. Even with just five Mo Dong Heroes and a healthy Cheung 3 Fung, it would have been brutal for the Mongols.
    I agree. ZM's men would have been mincemeat.

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