Proof/Sign of martial arts deterioation from Song to Yuan?

[PJ]

In DGSD, Murong Fu was said to be unable to learn any of the 72 Supreme Arts of Shaolin (and thus why he didn't know any).

In HSDS, Abbot Kongwen knows 11 or 12 of the arts.

Does this mean either Kongwen was significantly above the level of Murong Fu, or the 72 arts deterioated significantly between Song and Yuan.

[Wellesley]

I have not read this novel so I am ignorant about this, but Murong Fu not being able to learn a Shaolin Supreme Art might be due to the fact that he did not have access to all of them. I don't think ALL the Supreme Arts were kept in the library near his home.

Murong Fu is very talented, more so than Duan ZhengCun, yet the latter learned 1 Yang Zhi, which should be as difficult to learn as 1 supreme art.

I speculate that among all of the 72 supreme arts, there are at least a few that would suit Murong Fu's natural talents, and many others that he would not have the talent to learn. But because he did not have the chance to browse all of them to find one that suited him, he could not learn anything.

Since the 72 arts were kept in written form in the manuals at Shaolin, If there is any deterioration it's due to the lower talent of KongWen's generation.

[Ren Ying Ying]

i thought Murong Fu didn't have access to the duan family arts?

of course, Murong Fu was also relatively young, only around 30ish? perhaps he did not have enough time. he was also trying to learn various other arts at the same time.

or perhaps...he is just really a lousy martial artist compared to the top ranked elites

[Dennis Chen]

Murong Fu didn't seem to have good internal arts manuals. I think that's what limited him the most.

Even Murong Bo, who was said to be a martial arts genius, wanted to learn Shaolin arts. And all those years of learning only made him equal to Xiao Yuan Shan and Xiao Feng. It would seem that they had all been learning Shaolin kung fu for roughly the same time.

Had Murong Fu the access to learn one of the Shaolin 72 arts, he could very well have been a closer equal to Xiao Feng.

But I digress.

Kongwen must have had guidance in learning his Shaolin kung fu. Even if Murong Fu had the manuals, he didn't have the one on one training that Kongwen had with masters of the art. Or that Xiao Feng had with his Shaolin master. It was this lack of guidance that cause Xiao Yuan Shan and Murong Bo to fire deviate. Lack of guidance caused Jiu Mozhi to fire deviate. The only exceptions in DGSD are Duan Yu and You Tanzhi. You Tanzhi is recognized as being a freak occurance. And Duan Yu didn't push himself like the elder Xiao and Murong or Jiu Mozhi. Of course, that also meant that Duan Yu couldn't use his Liu Mai Shen Jian reliably.

[Guo Xiang]

One of Murong Fu's flaws is that he gets easily distracted. He knows many martial arts, yet is master at none, which is a major drawback. Plus he is also distracted by his Yan Dynasty revival mission.

Even he had access to the 72 arts, the double distraction could have made his progress very limited.

[flamer]

I think there is still a degree of competency regarding the Arts. Eg the Prana Palms. It was said one can go to limitless ends with the palm. But one would agree that if a person can use the palm, although a weak one, the person "knows" the skill. So Kongwen might know 11-12 Arts but his level of competency might not be as high as say Xuan Ci.

[Candide]

The Xuan monks in DGSD mastered quite a few arts, but when they watched Jim Mozhi perform a f'ed up version of the very art they thought they had mastered to perfection, they couldn't recognize Jiu's limitation and thought that he was well beyond them. It means that the DGSD monks had not really mastered theirs (in the way that Sweeper Monk explained later). They only reached a certain level high enough to be considered competent.

[Extremer88]

Murong Fu is very talented, more so than Duan ZhengCun, yet the latter learned 1 Yang Zhi, which should be as difficult to learn as 1 supreme art.

Can Yiyang Finger be considered on par with the three Shaolin finger supreme arts that Jiumozhi show off to the Tianlong reverends?

I would be inclined to say that YYF is better and harder to learn than any of Shaolin finger supreme arts.

[K2Grey]

I dunno, I heard someone, maybe PJ describe JMZ doing Wuxiang Jie zhi (formless finger of doom?) and it was very impressive.

[PJ]

K2Grey, have you been reading our RPG?

Reverend Rongku prepared himself.

Suddenly, he toss his hands and screamed: "I am not human! I am an animal!"

The crowd startled at such a bizarre beginning to the story.

[K2Grey]

Not lately, but I read through it a while ago and rofl'd at that part.

[PJ]

Not lately, but I read through it a while ago and rofl'd at that part.

Good, I'm glad the creative writing delivered entertainment.