Would the Mo Yungs have been more successful in different eras?

[Ken Cheng]

The Mo Yung Family (father and son, Mo Yung Bok and Mo Yung F'uk) ultimately didn't succeed in their dream of restoring the Yin Kingdom because there were simply too many obstacles for them to overcome in their era: the Sius of Khitan, the Deuns of Dali, Hui Juk and Janitor Monk of Shaolin, etc. Moreover, the Khitan Liao Empire, the Northern Sung Dynasty, the Dali Kingdom, the Hsi Hsia Kingdom, and the Tubo Kingdom would have been formidable enemies had it come to war.

Would the Mo Yungs have had more success if they attempted their plan in a different era? What if they tried during the time of LOCH? They'd have to contend with Juchen Jin Empire and the Greats. If they'd tried during the era of ROCH, they would have to contend with Gwok Jing, Yeung Gor, the elder Greats, and the Mongol Empire. In the HSDS, there would be the Ming Cult and the Yuan Dynasty to deal with. In the SPW era, there would be Dung Fong But Bai and others to pose a problem.

Maybe by the Qing Dynasty, there'd be an opening, but firearms were becoming an issue by the Qing Dynasty. The Mo Yungs would need to acquire some.

[Extremer88]

I think the most "easiest" era for the Murong Family would be the Ode to Gallantry period (Mid Ming Dynasty).

They just need to stock up, wait for all the pugilists to enter the Ode to Gallantry island, then blow up the place! (Including SPT of course!)

Then without their leaders, take over or eliminate each of the sects in Central Plains.

[Extremer88]

This is a bit off-topic. One of the prerequisites to create a strong empire for the Murongs is to lay a strong foundation, and by that means:

1. Have enough money reserves. I'm certain that if Murong Fu sold his manor and his cupboard of martial arts manuals, he would have plenty of cash to spend...

2. Start recruiting and train up a strong army (Clearly the Murong Family didn't have this...)

3. Hire mercenaries (like Zhao Min did) to serve the Murong Family, even if they only have bit part abilties, numbers would make up the quality somehow. (People like Bao Butong aren't that good, but having 20 Bao Butong would be a different proposition)

4. Improve your martial arts. (Murong Fu didn't trained hard, it's a waste given that he has some talent in martial arts and that cupboard of martial arts manuals - imagine a Yan Emperor that is strong in martial arts, people would be scared of that.)

5. Have more interest in women, take in more concubines. Imagine if MRF take Wang Yuyan as his wife, Ah Zhu and Ah Bi as his concubines. With such great women by his side, he can use their beauty and intelligence to plan some devious acts. (Clearly, he didn't appreciate them, especially WYY)

5. Wait for the right moment to strike (MRB and MRF waited for this, but they didn't have Lady Luck around to pull off their plans)

[AnhHung]

This is a bit off-topic. One of the prerequisites to create a strong empire for the Murongs is to lay a strong foundation, and by that means:

1. Have enough money reserves. I'm certain that if Murong Fu sold his manor and his cupboard of martial arts manuals, he would have plenty of cash to spend...

2. Start recruiting and train up a strong army (Clearly the Murong Family didn't have this...)

3. Hire mercenaries (like Zhao Min did) to serve the Murong Family, even if they only have bit part abilties, numbers would make up the quality somehow. (People like Bao Butong aren't that good, but having 20 Bao Butong would be a different proposition)

4. Improve your martial arts. (Murong Fu didn't trained hard, it's a waste given that he has some talent in martial arts and that cupboard of martial arts manuals - imagine a Yan Emperor that is strong in martial arts, people would be scared of that.)

5. Have more interest in women, take in more concubines. Imagine if MRF take Wang Yuyan as his wife, Ah Zhu and Ah Bi as his concubines. With such great women by his side, he can use their beauty and intelligence to plan some devious acts. (Clearly, he didn't appreciate them, especially WYY)

5. Wait for the right moment to strike (MRB and MRF waited for this, but they didn't have Lady Luck around to pull off their plans)

I think the most important points are the first two. I don remember MYF to be that rich, so that is perhaps the reason why he didnt have any army.

The only correct thing I think he did to restore his kingdom, was to compete for the princess of Xsi Xsi. He could try a coup d'etat from the inside. That I think is the only chance.

To be honest, I dont think wulin is much of an obsticle for an army.

[flamer]

Remind me if im wrong. Isnt Yan Kingdom pretty much in Shandong in Song? Why would it involve Liao, Dali, Tubo etc...

[Ken Cheng]

Remind me if im wrong. Isnt Yan Kingdom pretty much in Shandong in Song? Why would it involve Liao, Dali, Tubo etc...

I think the Mo Yungs' ambition stretched farther than just restoring the old kingdom with its original borders. They likely wanted to expand it and make it greater than the old kingdom. Sung, Dali, Liao, Hsi Hsia, and Tubo, therefore, were threats and rivals to be eliminated.

The plan likely was to have these states destroy or weaken each other, then the Mo Yungs and their allies would mop up the rest.

[Wellesley]

I think Murong Fu should have gone the government route to restore his dynasty. He should have have passed his imperial examination, or bought an official post in the military, build contacts, and when he has a loyal army behind him, rebel.

However, Song dynasty is the worst era to forment rebellions, as the Emperor distrusted the military and gave them less powers than what they had in the Tang dynasty.

Or perhaps he could have started a band of bandits. But again Song dynasty was not chaotic like the end of the Han dynasty where rebels sprung up all over the country.

His best bet would be to be a government official, make lots of contacts and lots of kids. Marry the daughter of an influential family, build alliances within Song itself, wait for the opportune time. If that time does not come, then let his descendants, who now have a stronger social base than he did, handle the restoration when the tme arises.

[flamer]

I think Murong Fu should have gone the government route to restore his dynasty. He should have have passed his imperial examination, or bought an official post in the military, build contacts, and when he has a loyal army behind him, rebel.

However, Song dynasty is the worst era to forment rebellions, as the Emperor distrusted the military and gave them less powers than what they had in the Tang dynasty.

Or perhaps he could have started a band of bandits. But again Song dynasty was not chaotic like the end of the Han dynasty where rebels sprung up all over the country.

His best bet would be to be a government official, make lots of contacts and lots of kids. Marry the daughter of an influential family, build alliances within Song itself, wait for the opportune time. If that time does not come, then let his descendants, who now have a stronger social base than he did, handle the restoration when the tme arises.

Lol somehow i think thats tougher than what he was doing in DGSD...

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But i thought his ambition is to 光复 and Murongs recognised that its a tough job just restoring... Quite unlikely that they actually want to restore AND expand.

[Ken Cheng]

They just need to stock up, wait for all the pugilists to enter the Ode to Gallantry island, then blow up the place! (Including SPT of course!)

Sek Por Tin would have just jumped across the ocean and escaped.

[K2Grey]

Well, the task of taking over a country is always a kind of difficult one to achieve really.

[Ken Cheng]

Well, the task of taking over a country is always a kind of difficult one to achieve really.

Ironically, from the Mo Yungs' perspective, Genghis Khan defeated the Jurchen Jin Empire without hardly getting his army involved in wulin affairs at all. Post-ROCH, the Mongols *finally* conquered the Southern Sung Dynasty after they stopped futzing around in wulin affairs and just bowled Seung Yeung Fortress over with their cavalry.

It's like I observed in an earlier thread: the road to ruling nations didn't go through wulin. The Mo Yungs were probably fools for believing that it did.

[LuNaR]

only era i see the mo yungs dominating is in the qing era when WXB dominated the world.

[Ken Cheng]

only era i see the mo yungs dominating is in the qing era when WXB dominated the world.

Wai Siu Bo was at his best when outwitting uptight people such as Mo Yung F'uk. I can see Mo Yung F'uk totally at the mercy of Wai Siu Bo's dirty schemes.

And if that doesn't work, Wai Siu Bo's incredible good luck mojo would totally destroy Mo Yung F'uk's bad luck mojo.

[LuNaR]

Wai Siu Bo was at his best when outwitting uptight people such as Mo Yung F'uk. I can see Mo Yung F'uk totally at the mercy of Wai Siu Bo's dirty schemes.

And if that doesn't work, Wai Siu Bo's incredible good luck mojo would totally destroy Mo Yung F'uk's bad luck mojo.

if mo yong *** and his army allied the god-dragon island, mongolian, tibetian, and russian, they would have definitely defeated the qing. WXB will be smart enough to jump boats

[flamer]

The decision to go through Wulin might be the only possible way then. He had little influence to raise local townsmen, not enough money to buy equipment+men. His only chance was to get true volunteers and the best place is Wulin which is full of skilled people, with their own equipments.