Yang Guo + Xiao Long Nu -- lovey-dovey scenes!

[Ken Cheng]

I think you're just angry that your GJ didn't look cool enough standing next to my YG.

Argumentum ad hominem much?

[dewyloony123]

Argumentum ad hominem much?

But...

It is always bad form to use the fallacy of argumentum ad hominem. But there are some cases when it is not really a fallacy, such as when one needs to evaluate the truth of factual statements (as opposed to lines of argument or statements of value) made by interested parties. If someone has an incentive to lie about something, then it would be naive to accept his statements about that subject without question. It is also possible to restate many ad hominem arguments so as to redirect them toward ideas rather than people, such as by replacing "My opponents are fascists" with "My opponents' arguments are fascist."

Source: http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallac...%20ignorantiam

[GuGu]

Argumentum ad hominem much?

it's nice that you only quoted just one sentence of my reply.

[Ken Cheng]

it's nice that you only quoted just one sentence of my reply.

It's the only part of it that was objectionable.

I had no beef with the rest of it. That was just your opinion. I don't share it, but I didn't feel compelled to object to it either.

In other words, you could have made your point much better without the last sentence. The last sentence was gratuitous and distracted from the point you were trying to make.

[dewyloony123]

Argumentum ad hominem much?

WHOA WHOA WHOA, I just noticed how slick that was! It was an ad hominem against (purported) ad hominem!

Slick!

One could even argue it was a slight straw man--made it look like GuGu was attacking you, etc.

Tubular.

[Sorry, I'm having too much fun with this. I'll stop.]

[Quinton]

I wish one day that YunJae can play something like this.

and who would play the female lead?

[GuGu]

and who would play the female lead?

heeeheee, i'm thinking jaejoongie.

[GuGu]

WHOA WHOA WHOA, I just noticed how slick that was! It was an ad hominem against (purported) ad hominem!

Slick!

One could even argue it was a slight straw man--made it look like GuGu was attacking you, etc.

Tubular.

[Sorry, I'm having too much fun with this. I'll stop.]

i was only pointing out how biased he is when it comes to YG and XLN.

[patricia n]

Hmm... I'll take your word for it. I haven't seen ROCH 83 in awhile. I'm pretty charitable, so I forgave them for being mushy because I figured it comes from their innocence of the world, etc.

Just to give you guys an idea of my mushiness meter--so you know I'm not BSing you--I found "Love Actually" to be disgusting in the first 30 seconds. Maybe even less.

that's interesting...i'm more put off by yg and ldg's obsessive love, esp when seeing how many fans are swearing by the "purity" of their love. and while watching the series, i couldn't feel for them. if you were to tell me that a pair of lovers were separated for 16 years and their love was the least affected by the distance and magnified by their memories, i would actually think, that's quite special. however, seeing their scenes made me felt nothing and i could care less if ldg really ended marrying that dude who lives in the valley. if anything, i was aggravated by their over the top "only you and i exist in this world whether we are apart or together" attitude that i came to the realization that i could never come to appreciate roch as the mediocre fans can (by mediocre, i mean the non- die hard fans). their mushy scenes leave me rooting for a permanent separation for the two.

as a matter of fact, i felt that "love actually" was much more touching and can sympathize for all of the protagonists of the story...especially since they were very much aware that there are people who they need to be more considerate of even if it means that they need to sacrifice their romantic lives. or that a love can be so strong that even after the death of a lover, the person left behind continues to love his step child even though he has no biologic relationship with that child. or a love so passionate that it can overcome a significant language barrier because two people grew to understand each other. anyhow, i feel like i'm writing a review.

overall, i find the kind(s) of love in "love actually" to be much more tolerable and hypnotic than the selfish love seen in roch. selfish because yg and ldg only think of themselves and forget about the world for 99.9999999999% of the time when they are together and 98.888888% of the time when separated.

sorry, i can't help myself....i'm a big fan of "love actually" and cannot stand roch's main romantic plot. so when i see the "lovey dovey scenes," i can only think, "oh brother, here we go again...now's a good time for me to go grab a snack or take a bathroom break."

i guess we have different mushy meters. i don't consider "love actually" mushy overall...it had very few mushy scenes and many really endearing scenes which made me think, "awww."

but roch made me think, "eww" if not "eh."

[dewyloony123]

IMHO these describe lovey-dovey crap:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2PDITG5FH8WX
http://www.ukcritic.com/love_actually.html

A future post will explain why YG & XLN are not, by the criteria represented in those two reviews, full of cr@p.

[patricia n]

IMHO these describe lovey-dovey crap:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2PDITG5FH8WX
http://www.ukcritic.com/love_actually.html

A future post will explain why YG & XLN are not, by the criteria represented in those two reviews, full of cr@p.

which is exactly why i don't rely on critics to form my opinions. (to be honest, i only read the first paragraph of the review and got bored. no need to waste my time). i've seen the movie 3 times and while the movie is an "ode to love," it does not necessarily mean that it's lovey dovey. whereas the scenes bogeyman describe is exactly what i imagine lovey dovey (to put it lightly) to be...but nauseatingly so. anyhow, opinions will be opinions and i respect yours. i just wanted to put in my 2 cents for this thread and to defend "love actually" in case people who are adverse to the scenes in roch and have not seen "love actually" may avoid watching what happens to be an excellent movie imho because they came across your brief post.

[warlock110]

ROCH '83 is the only version I've really seen, and it was pretty horrible.

It makes me feel that Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl were very rude and obnoxious people, not in the usual "Hey, f**ker! F**k you, a**hole!" kind of way, but in a sort of passive-aggresive way...like, "We're too above-it-all to even notice you" condescending way.

she live in a ****en cave since she's like 2... make sense to me. plus she's real hot

[Ken Cheng]

she live in a ****en cave since she's like 2... make sense to me. plus she's real hot

You can rationalize it any way you like, but at the end of the day...just WHY should I admire that?

That's the question nobody can ever answer.

[dewyloony123]

which is exactly why i don't rely on critics to form my opinions. (to be honest, i only read the first paragraph of the review and got bored. no need to waste my time). i've seen the movie 3 times and while the movie is an "ode to love," it does not necessarily mean that it's lovey dovey. whereas the scenes bogeyman describe is exactly what i imagine lovey dovey (to put it lightly) to be...but nauseatingly so. anyhow, opinions will be opinions and i respect yours. i just wanted to put in my 2 cents for this thread and to defend "love actually" in case people who are adverse to the scenes in roch and have not seen "love actually" may avoid watching what happens to be an excellent movie imho because they came across your brief post.

I know my post was too brief, but I haven't the time to waste on a critique of the movie. So in lieu of my review, I decided to post those two to serve as a counterpoint to your opinion (which I respect as well). I just wanted to put in my two cents as well to attack the movie in case people who are averse to the lovey-dovey and who haven't seen "Love Actually" decide to watch what happens to be saccharine tripe because they came across your defense

"Love Actually" is just polarizing that way--you either adore it or abhore it. I'm just having fun.

Long story short, IMHO I don't dislike the novel's depictions of YG and XLN because IMHO they don't display the traits that I *do* dislike in, say "Love Actually" (that's where those two reviews come in).

Not saying YG and XLN are ideal. It's just that given their, um, unique upbringings, I can be understanding of them; I can believe they work as a viable couple, and are not an example of sickening sap. It's sort of like what Rocky says about Adrian: she's got gaps, he's got gaps, together they fill gaps.

If they were normal, yeah, they would be quite nauseating.

[bellamia]

You can rationalize it any way you like, but at the end of the day...just WHY should I admire that?

That's the question nobody can ever answer.

XLN doesn't have any trait that I can consider "admirable," and I don't think anyone is asking such. However, her flaws are forgivable because as Warlock has alluded, she grew up in a cave with practically little human contacts. Thus, her coldness and carelessness towards the outside world is explainable, given her background. In her eyes, YG is the only real family that she has. Yes, their strong attachment and obsessive behaviors toward one another can be absolutely overbearing and nauseating at time, but I think they are forgivable just because comparing them to other normal/rational folks, both YG and XLN are (nicely put) on a dimension of their own...in another word, they are both "unique" individuals, if you get my drift.

[Ken Cheng]

XLN doesn't have any trait that I can consider "admirable," and I don't think anyone is asking such. However, her flaws are forgivable because as Warlock has alluded, she grew up in a cave with practically little human contacts. Thus, her coldness and carelessness towards the outside world is explainable, given her background. In her eyes, YG is the only real family that she has. Yes, their strong attachment and obsessive behaviors toward one another can be absolutely overbearing and nauseating at time, but I think they are forgivable just because comparing them to other normal/rational folks, both YG and XLN are (nicely put) on a dimension of their own...in another word, they are both "unique" individuals, if you get my drift.

Yeah, I totally get it.

I just don't find any reason to *like* it.

[Ren Ying Ying]

however, seeing their scenes made me felt nothing and i could care less if ldg really ended marrying that dude who lives in the valley.

how could you not care when the pretty little girl was going to give up the handsome boy and marry the ugly old fart.

[owbjhx]

The 3rd edition of Shen Diao Xia Lu really ups the mush factor. For all you YG/XLN mush-lovers - and especially for Ken - here's a quick translation of a section from Chapter 13, which is new to the 3rd edition.

-

[Scene: The Feast of the Heroes at Dashengguan. Huodu is fighting Zhu Ziliu in the first of the three bouts between the Mongolians and Chinese wulin. On the sidelines, Yang Guo and Xiaolongnu - who have just been reunited - are having a private conversation about how much they missed each other.]

XLN (smiling): "So...did you think about me?"
YG: "Course I did! At least 200 times a day."
XLN: "200 times isn't enough. I want 300 times."
YG: "I'll think of you 400 times a day, then. 200 times in the morning, and 200 times in the afternoon."
XLN: "Think of me at mealtimes, too - another 100 times. That's 500 times a day."

[A bit later...]

XLN (sighing): "Think of me in your dreams, another 100 times! So when we part, you must think of me at least 600 times a day."
YG: "We'll never part again. And if we do, I'll think of you 700 times a day."
XLN: "800 times!"
YG: "900 times!"
XLN: "1000 times!"

[Yang Guo, his heart aflame with passion, cannot stop himself from taking her into his arms and kissing her...]

-

How's that, Ken? Is it Friday night's coq au vin and accompanying '66 Romanee-Conti I see in that puddle? Oh, I am sorry.

(By the way, I'm not joking. Jinyong really did write that.)

[kidd]

I can't believe it. This is the mushiest dialogue I've ever read or heard.

This dialogue is only fit for comedy.

[Ken Cheng]

I can't believe it. This is the mushiest dialogue I've ever read or heard.

This dialogue is only fit for comedy.

Yeah, with all due respect to Jin Yong, whose work I love and whom I admire as a great writer...those lines are terrible. Even I could do better than that, and I'm just a little fanfic writer at SPCNET.