9 Yin vs 9 Yang -- internal aspect

[PJ]

Which one is the better internal art?

The only person who practiced the full 9 Yin is Guo Jing**.

The only person who practiced the full 9 Yang is Zhang Wuji**. However Zhang Wuji received a special internal boost in the qiankun bag. So we are unable to measure how good he was with 9 Yang alone.

However, we do know that Zhang Sanfeng got roughly 1/3 of 9 Yang. At age 110, Zhang Sanfeng is estimated to be roughly equal to ROCH Guo Jing in terms of internal cultivation.

Can we draw any conclusions from this?

**Other than the creators of these arts, obviously.

[Dennis Chen]

And here I thought the qiankun bag helped to open up important pressure points that allowed ZWJ to fully use the internal energy he had already built up over the course of 5 years. And did not actually boost the level of his internal energy.

[Tazzy1972]

you might need to factor in the snake blood GJ drank as a boost to his internal.

[Tom]

Well, Zhang Wuji was roughly a ROCH-Great by the end of HSDS. By the end of HSDS he was still in his 20's.

Guo Jing because a ROCH-Great when he reached his 50's...

Age tells you something, doesn't it?

Of course, Zhang Wuji learned QKDNY, so I doubt we can really estimate how good 9 Yang is. I say it's roughly around the efficiency level of 9 Yin since it was made to be the equivalent of 9 Yin.

[flamer]

QKDNY requires huge internal to use. Its a pure external art.

I think 9 YANG will be the better INTERNAL art.

[AnhHung]

QKDNY requires huge internal to use. Its a pure external art.

I think 9 YANG will be the better INTERNAL art.

Agree.

QKDNY enables the practitioner to utilize his internal power to the max. So one could say that he got a boost out of QKDNY and QK-bag.

My estimation:
ZWJ 20s (QKDNY+QK-bag) ~ GJ 50s (Snake blood)
ZWJ 50s (with out QKDNY+QK-bag) > GJ 50s (Snake blood)

5 years of training 9 yang and before QK-bag, ZWJ was already a powerhouse in terms of internal power. His uncle was astonished at his level and could not match him in lightness kung fu.

I think 9 YANG will be the better INTERNAL art.

[Ken Cheng]

The snake blood didn't do much for Gwok Jing's inner power, or at least it didn't in the two more recent editions of LOCH (I remember reading that it made a BIG difference in LOCH Ed. 1). As I understand it, the snake blood helped him very little in the inner power department, but gave him limited resistance to poisons.

[muidi]

There was a similar discussion before, when it was about the origin of 9yang, see:
http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...t=11680&page=2

Please note, that 9yang came from 9yin without the Sanskrit part. So from this fact, 9yin should actually be stronger than 9yang. From the translations of Roch and HSDS, it seems more that 9yang has better martial arts theories. Especially in chapter 40 in Roch where it was stated (the part, when YG and Yueyan told Junbao how to fight, has for me a metaphoric meaning for the comparison of 9yin and 9yang) that 9yin teaches to attack faster than the enemy (or try to make a fake movement following a real one), 9yang teaches to let the enemy attack first and reacts at this properly ("if the enemy is strong, let him be strong...." from 9yang said by Yueyuan, active vs. passive). YG was impressed with this martial theory.
But in my opinion, 9yin has better external martial art and 9yang better internal martial art.

[ChanceEncounter]

My estimation:
ZWJ 20s (QKDNY+QK-bag) ~ GJ 50s (Snake blood)
ZWJ 50s (with out QKDNY+QK-bag) > GJ 50s (Snake blood)

Not sure this is a great comparison, really. XZ at 24 is well stronger than GJ in his 50s, but that speaks nothing to the level of the martial arts he learned. GJ probably wished he had years to spend in solitary just training up his martial arts.

I think, when mastered, 9 Yin and 9 Yang are very comparable.

[Ken Cheng]

GJ probably wished he had years to spend in solitary just training up his martial arts.

He had thirteen between LOCH and ROCH. He had gotten married and sired a daughter during that time, but I doubt he was very much involved in the childrearing, and Wong Yung probably left him alone during the daylight hours.

This was when he made his biggest martial arts gains.

I think, when mastered, 9 Yin and 9 Yang are very comparable.

Some have mooted that 9 Yeung Jen Ging users get an even better inner power boost, but the 9 Yeung doesn't teach the user how to fight (the 9 Yum does). After learning the 9 Yeung Jen Ging, one would need to get a fighting technique like the Hong Lung 18 Palms to use it with. The 9 Yum Jen Ging had its own built-in set of techniques that used in conjunction with the manual's inner training module would probably put a user somewhat ahead of the Greats.

[ChanceEncounter]

He had thirteen between LOCH and ROCH. He had gotten married and sired a daughter during that time, but I doubt he was very much involved in the childrearing, and Wong Yung probably left him alone during the daylight hours.

This was when he made his biggest martial arts gains.

Even then, he did have to contribute to raising a daughter and keeping after an island.

I also strongly suspect that ZWJ has a much faster learning curve than GJ.

Some have mooted that 9 Yeung Jen Ging users get at even better inner power boost, but the 9 Yeung doesn't teach the user how to fight (the 9 Yum does). After learning the 9 Yeung Jen Ging, one would need to get a fighting technique like the Hong Lung 18 Palms to use it with. The 9 Yum Jen Ging had its own built-in set of techniques that used in conjunction with the manual's inner training module would probably put a user somewhat ahead of the Greats.

Good point, but the philosophies of the techniques are different.

9Yin stresses attacking first. This requires lethal techniques aimed to kill. 9Yang stresses acting second, and thus moving first, and is the ultimate in making someone's attack pay, possibly by rebounding it back to the opponent.

It's opposite philosophies, so I don't know if you could say that 9Yang builds up one's internal energy faster than 9Yin. Either way, with a sample size of 1 on each side (where we can chart their gains), it's not a very good barometer.

[Ken Cheng]

Even then, he did have to contribute to raising a daughter and keeping after an island.

I also strongly suspect that ZWJ has a much faster learning curve than GJ.

Probably. Cheung was a faster learner, and he had literally NO distractions in that hidden valley (well, other than messing with that gorilla, but that's not like having a wife and child...especially Wong Yung and Gwok Fu, who were real handfuls...).

9Yin stresses attacking first. This requires lethal techniques aimed to kill. 9Yang stresses acting second, and thus moving first, and is the ultimate in making someone's attack pay, possibly by rebounding it back to the opponent.

9 Yeung is a little risky in that sense. The 9 Yeung user will almost always lose the initiative advantage. In most cases, the 9 Yeung user has far superior inner power to the opponent, making that strategy feasible. But if the 9 Yum user has equal inner power, that tactic is likely going to fail.

[ChanceEncounter]

Yes, I suppose 9 Yang is riskier, but it turns that risk into a strength by attacking in a way that is hard to counter (since well... you are doing the attacking to yourself).

I always got the sense that 9Yin is the great spear, and 9Yang is the great shield. In that sense, it's very hard to say which is 'better' in terms of internal cultivation. Both cultivate, and both can kick ***.

[Ken Cheng]

Yes, I suppose 9 Yang is riskier, but it turns that risk into a strength by attacking in a way that is hard to counter (since well... you are doing the attacking to yourself).

I always got the sense that 9Yin is the great spear, and 9Yang is the great shield. In that sense, it's very hard to say which is 'better' in terms of internal cultivation. Both cultivate, and both can kick ***.

Too bad nobody ever had the chance to figure out how to use them together.

Perhaps Chow Bak Tung or Gwok Jing could have. The Left/Right Technique might have been useful in fusing the two skills.

[ChanceEncounter]

Too bad nobody ever had the chance to figure out how to use them together.

Perhaps Chow Bak Tung or Gwok Jing could have. The Left/Right Technique might have been useful in fusing the two skills.

I would say SPT would have the best chance of using both, but he definitely doesn't need another power boost.

[flamer]

Too bad nobody ever had the chance to figure out how to use them together.

Perhaps Chow Bak Tung or Gwok Jing could have. The Left/Right Technique might have been useful in fusing the two skills.

It will be too dangerous to train in both 9 Yin and 9 Yang. The energies will collide and cause damage. Ultra talents like Z3F could probably do it, according to ZWJ.

[Ken Cheng]

It will be too dangerous to train in both 9 Yin and 9 Yang. The energies will collide and cause damage. Ultra talents like Z3F could probably do it, according to ZWJ.

It's the balancing that's tricky, and that's where the Left/Right Technique might be useful. A Left/Right Technique user might be able to split his focus in a manner that would allow him to balance the yin and yang aspects of the two manuals.

[kyss of the sword]

when the monk created 9yang, he did not know of 9yin's balanced true inner power cultivation technique. but he tried to achieve the same thing huang sheng did by creating a balanced power. he merged shaolin's buddhist (yang)inner power with 9yin's daoist (yin)inner power. the effect should be quite powerful and equal to 9yin. but when ZWJ encountered 9yin inner power in ZZR(removed in recent edition), he found the flencecy of the inner power equal to his 9yang and maybe potentionly superior to his own in the future.

[Exodus]

when the monk created 9yang, he did not know of 9yin's balanced true inner power cultivation technique. but he tried to achieve the same thing huang sheng did by creating a balanced power. he merged shaolin's buddhist (yang)inner power with 9yin's daoist (yin)inner power. the effect should be quite powerful and equal to 9yin. but when ZWJ encountered 9yin inner power in ZZR(removed in recent edition), he found the flencecy of the inner power equal to his 9yang and maybe potentionly superior to his own in the future.

so 9 yin is superior to 9 yang thought we all agreed on that 9 yang was better in the internal department

[Ken Cheng]

so 9 yin is superior to 9 yang thought we all agreed on that 9 yang was better in the internal department

That was last year. We change opinions like we change fashions.