View Poll Results: Which set of 3 novels was superior?

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  • Condor Trilogy: LOCH, ROCH, HSDS

    12 32.43%
  • Jin Yong's last 3 major works: DGSD, SPW, DOMD

    21 56.76%
  • I like both sets to the same extent

    4 10.81%
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Thread: A classic fun discussion: Condor Trilogy vs Jin Yong's last 3 major works

  1. #1
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Default A classic fun discussion: Condor Trilogy vs Jin Yong's last 3 major works

    On the old Jin Yong forum, there was a discussion on which set of 3 novels was better-written and more entertaining:

    1. The Condor Trilogy, comprised of LOCH, ROCH, and HSDS

    -vs-

    2. Jin Yong's last 3 major works, comprised of DGSD, SPW, and DOMD.

    So, which set do you think is superior, and why?
    Last edited by PJ; 04-16-08 at 02:53 PM.
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    I haven't read Duke of Mount Deer, but I find that Demi-God Semi-Devils and Smiling Proud Wanderers have more interesting villains than the original 3 books.

    Golden Wheel Monk was sooo lame, he fits the old stereotype that just because someone is evil, they have to suck.

    When I read chapters that include Ren Wo Xing or Yue Buqun, I know that something interesting is going to happen. Jiumozhi is also interesting because he is a genius and still has a lot of success despite being a villain, and some of the most spectacular scenes involve him. He also puts away the stereotype that characters from peripheral countries generally suck.

    I also prefer Xiao Feng and Linghu Chong as protagonists as opposed to traditional "goodie two shoes" like Zhang Wuji and Guo Jing. Heck I even enjoyed the tragic character Lin Pingzhi.

    I also find that the stories of DGSD and SPW have a darker tone.

  3. #3
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    The Condor Trilogy had the more endearing characters which is why they are discussed the most. However, the latter three works are better written stories with a higher degree of complexity and sophistication.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    So, which set do you think is superior, and why?
    Personally, I regard Tian Long Ba Bu as better-written, smarter and more entertaining than all three Trilogy novels put together. It's Wuxia For Thinking Readers. Out of Jinyong's five major wuxia novels, it takes itself the least seriously, and an undertone of surreal black comedy (at times, very black indeed) pervades the book - even during Xiao Feng's plot. Despite being a vast, rambling work, it manages to adhere quite well to its Buddhist themes, which gives it integrity.

    She Diao and Shen Diao feel more like children's books in comparison, and there's some awful writing in there. What they do have that TLBB lacks are some unforgettable characters and iconic ideas. I feel JY was writing more with his heart than his mind, so you get great flourishes of imagination but not a lot of thinking. They're the sort of novels that translate (or should translate) very well to TV.

    Yi Tian Tu Long Ji is a mess of a novel. It has its highs, but it's mostly a mess.

    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu is definitely more 'mature' than the earlier works, but I feel it lacks a certain something, and there's a darkness and austerity about it which makes it hard to love.

    I haven't read Lu Ding Ji, so I can't comment on it.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Each of these novels have a different plus point.

    LOCH has my favorite protagonists.
    ROCH has a "love" story.
    DGSD has the epic feel.
    SPW has a good, mature, and perhaps "dark" story.
    DOMD has a funny main character.

    Each of these story has their own pluses and minuses. The second set should be superior in terms of writing, but how much a person likes them depends of his/her own taste.

  6. #6
    Senior Member redfirefly124's Avatar
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    To tell you the truth, I don't really know the story of DOMD or DGSD in detail. I just know DOMD involves a player hooking up with pretty stupid girls who fall for him, and DGSD involves Xiao Feng, who kills A Zhu, and then A Zi, A Zhu's sister, likes him, and in the end he dies, and... (this one I know in a bit more detail).

    In general, I do like XAJH (SPW), but its so dark. I watched XAJH 01, and it had so much more BLOOD then ROCH, LOCH, and HSDS. Personally I LOVE LOCH (fantastic story, characters, etc), don't really like ROCH (stupid YG and XLN and their GUO'ER! LONG'ER! chanting), and found HSDS meh. It was okay, I think Yin Su Su and Yin Li (Zhu'er) were cooler then ZWJ, ZM, and ZZR though.

    But I guess overally I'll have to vote for Condor Trilogy. Sorry guys, Rong'er and Jing Ge Ge are just too awesome.

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    Senior Member shenlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wellesley View Post
    I haven't read Duke of Mount Deer, but I find that Demi-God Semi-Devils and Smiling Proud Wanderers have more interesting villains than the original 3 books.

    Golden Wheel Monk was sooo lame, he fits the old stereotype that just because someone is evil, they have to suck.

    When I read chapters that include Ren Wo Xing or Yue Buqun, I know that something interesting is going to happen. Jiumozhi is also interesting because he is a genius and still has a lot of success despite being a villain, and some of the most spectacular scenes involve him. He also puts away the stereotype that characters from peripheral countries generally suck.

    I also prefer Xiao Feng and Linghu Chong as protagonists as opposed to traditional "goodie two shoes" like Zhang Wuji and Guo Jing. Heck I even enjoyed the tragic character Lin Pingzhi.

    I also find that the stories of DGSD and SPW have a darker tone.
    GWM was one of the most powerful characters by the end of ROCH. NOt better than YG, but certainly better than GJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by shenlong View Post
    GWM was one of the most powerful characters by the end of ROCH. NOt better than YG, but certainly better than GJ


    Then why did BWM keep weaseling out of a fair fight with GJ? Even at the end of ROCH, BWM never had enough confidence to challenge GJ to a mano-a-mano battle.

  9. #9
    Senior Member redfirefly124's Avatar
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    I still believe that GJ>YG, so like Wu Wudi, I think GJ>GWM.
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    Senior Member kwekmh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi View Post


    Then why did BWM keep weaseling out of a fair fight with GJ? Even at the end of ROCH, BWM never had enough confidence to challenge GJ to a mano-a-mano battle.
    Part of that could be attributed to the fact that he believed Yang Guo to be weaker than Guo Jing. He was probably intimidated by Guo Jing's reputation. That, however, does not necessarily mean that Guo Jing was stronger than GWM.

    I believe that Guo Jing was around Yang Guo's level, which is to say, he was probably stronger than GWM. I wouldn't say that Guo Jing is superior to Yang Guo though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwekmh View Post
    Part of that could be attributed to the fact that he believed Yang Guo to be weaker than Guo Jing. He was probably intimidated by Guo Jing's reputation. That, however, does not necessarily mean that Guo Jing was stronger than GWM.

    I believe that Guo Jing was around Yang Guo's level, which is to say, he was probably stronger than GWM. I wouldn't say that Guo Jing is superior to Yang Guo though.
    As much as I think BWM is a joke of a main villain, I'd admit that all three are around the same level. That doesn't mean that I think they're equal but just that they are of the same tier.

    Like I said before, it's hard to get a grasp of GJ's true abilities since ROCH was YG's show. JY had to set up GJ with handicapped battles against BWM to ensure that GJ wouldn't steal the thunder of YG and XLN.

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    Senior Member smurf120's Avatar
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    My views are based off of watching the all of the television adaptations and various translated works (part LOCH, all ROCH, part HSDS, all SPW, all DOMD).

    I agree with the comment that the Condor Trilogy seems to translate better on screen since I liked those adaptations more than the other three. After reading the English translations, I found that I enjoyed the later three much more.

    I felt the protagonists of the latter stories (Wei Xiao Bao and LinHuChong) to be more fun and have more layers to their characters vs. YG's entire life was based on two events (1) you killed my father and (2) no one loves me but Gugu. (Yeh, it's more complex than that but really that's how I would sum it if I only had two sentences.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by smurf120 View Post
    I agree with the comment that the Condor Trilogy seems to translate better on screen since I liked those adaptations more than the other three. After reading the English translations, I found that I enjoyed the later three much more.
    Did any adaptation manage to pull off Smiling Proud Wanderer's fight sequence in the dark cave at the end of the story? I would imagine that it's almost impossible to do so.

  14. #14
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    Through the English translation, I always felt the part that never really came onscreen correctly was when LHC had to face detention on Si Gor Ngai and learned Dugu9 Swords and all the cave drawings. Every tv show just made that scene look like he was hallucinating.

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    TVB's SOD 96 portrated both scenes fairly well.
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    While I enjoy ROCH very much, I do not particular favour the absurd plots used, eg: the love flower at passionless valley, brother condor ability to train YG, stripping to learn jade maiden, YG having his arm cut off by none other than GF (it would have a better finale if his arm was cut off by GWM wheel).

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    The whole Passionless Vally story arc was just terrible. It's easily one of JY's weakest storylines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi View Post
    The whole Passionless Vally story arc was just terrible. It's easily one of JY's weakest storylines.
    The concept wasn't so bad, but Jin Yong dwelled on it too long. I thought the idea was kind of nifty myself until it started to drag on and on and onnnnnnnn...

  19. #19
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi View Post
    The whole Passionless Vally story arc was just terrible. It's easily one of JY's weakest storylines.
    Yes, and ROCH 2005 made it infinitely worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    The concept wasn't so bad, but Jin Yong dwelled on it too long. I thought the idea was kind of nifty myself until it started to drag on and on and onnnnnnnn...
    yeah he ****ed up on that one, as much as i like ROCH, i really think that arc was crap.

    the trilogy IMO is not as good as his later work

    DOMD and DGSD was probably the best stories out of the bunch. I never really like smiling proud wonderer I only watches the addaption and it doesn't seem any of them was good enough (and i've seen all of the recent ones).

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