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Thread: Would any wulin man choose the Qwai Fa Bo Deen if other elite skills were available?

  1. #61
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuyuejin View Post
    Sexual desire, maybe, but not sexual ability, or else Viagra would've not become so famous.

    Well I've heard of men in their 80s,90s getting women pregnant. Viagra or not, their brothers are not entirely useless as you make them out to be.

  2. #62
    Senior Member cristal entity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    Beiming is definitely better than Xixing. No question about that.
    Any conclusive proof?
    내가 황제라면, 모든 단어에 의미를 부여하기 위해 사전을 만드는 일 부터 시작할 것이다.

    AkA: strife_au in the old mythic golden era of SPCNET pre-2007... Pioneer and architect of chaos... The legend lives.

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    Senior Member cristal entity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    Well I've heard of men in their 80s,90s getting women pregnant. Viagra or not, their brothers are not entirely useless as you make them out to be.
    And how many in millions can actually do that?
    It's probably like getting the semen from the guy and putting it inside the girls V to get her pregnant.
    내가 황제라면, 모든 단어에 의미를 부여하기 위해 사전을 만드는 일 부터 시작할 것이다.

    AkA: strife_au in the old mythic golden era of SPCNET pre-2007... Pioneer and architect of chaos... The legend lives.

  4. #64
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cristal entity View Post
    No single martial art dominated wulin like KHBD did, with 1 month's training, noobs became world beaters, how can you resist that?
    Zhou Zhiruo was overpowering First Class fighters (Fan Yao) in ONE stance after like half a month of training of 9 Yin crash course.

    And let's not forget the Persians' blending of a fraction of Holy Fire art with Qiankun Danuoyi level one. 3 of these guys actually defeated Zhang Wuji.
    TC to Ken: "You need to watch the ending of ROCH 83."

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Zhou Zhiruo was overpowering First Class fighters (Fan Yao) in ONE stance after like half a month of training of 9 Yin crash course.
    That was a bit smoke and mirrors, though. She couldn't *really* stand toe to toe with the likes of Fan Yiu and fighters of the same or higher class.

  6. #66
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the.raven View Post
    is BMSG more poewrful than XXDF???? i always thought it was the opposite. because the person who invented XXDF derived it from BMSG, obviously he needs to have access to BMSG manual or know how to use BMSG in order to do that, if BMSG is actually more pwoerful, why not just learn BMSG? why go through the trouble of creating an inferior art? It would make sense that the derivation of BMSG is an improvement of it, as for the side effects its probably a flaw resulting from increased power in other aspects.
    Xixing Dafa has some advantages over Beiming Shengong, such as the ability to AFOVCO: Absorb From Opponent Via Connected Objects. However, it doesn't seem to have Beiming Shengong's ability to cast varying classes of energies into a single supertype.
    TC to Ken: "You need to watch the ending of ROCH 83."

  7. #67
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    That was a bit smoke and mirrors, though. She couldn't *really* stand toe to toe with the likes of Fan Yiu and fighters of the same or higher class.
    If they know her trick, then they can defeat her. But they won't figure out the trick quickly (no one did), so they will lose.
    TC to Ken: "You need to watch the ending of ROCH 83."

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    Senior Member cristal entity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Zhou Zhiruo was overpowering First Class fighters (Fan Yao) in ONE stance after like half a month of training of 9 Yin crash course.

    And let's not forget the Persians' blending of a fraction of Holy Fire art with Qiankun Danuoyi level one. 3 of these guys actually defeated Zhang Wuji.
    With BXJF it was not tricks, it was real skill that was basically unmatched.
    Nothing fancy trick counters that can overawe your opponents like what yue Lingshan did at Songshan.
    내가 황제라면, 모든 단어에 의미를 부여하기 위해 사전을 만드는 일 부터 시작할 것이다.

    AkA: strife_au in the old mythic golden era of SPCNET pre-2007... Pioneer and architect of chaos... The legend lives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Xixing Dafa has some advantages over Beiming Shengong, such as the ability to AFOVCO: Absorb From Opponent Via Connected Objects. However, it doesn't seem to have Beiming Shengong's ability to cast varying classes of energies into a single supertype.
    so what happens when energies get sucked with xixing dafa? they remain as different types?

  10. #70
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cristal entity View Post
    Any conclusive proof?
    Yes. Look at the practitioners of both arts. More than enough proof.

    Beiming is often regarded as one of the best arts in the world of JY. Of course this is not relevant because its all fan imposed ideas.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Xixing Dafa has some advantages over Beiming Shengong, such as the ability to AFOVCO: Absorb From Opponent Via Connected Objects. However, it doesn't seem to have Beiming Shengong's ability to cast varying classes of energies into a single supertype.
    BMSG might actually be able to do that and more it's just that DY didn't really master it

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by cristal entity View Post
    With BXJF it was not tricks, it was real skill that was basically unmatched.
    Nothing fancy trick counters that can overawe your opponents like what yue Lingshan did at Songshan.
    The "trick" is having weird + unconventional + unpredictable techniques to compensate for lack of internal energy. It's the same thing with Zhou Zhiruo, the Persians, Yinggu, and practitioners of Pixie Jianfa (apologies to CC).
    TC to Ken: "You need to watch the ending of ROCH 83."

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    BMSG might actually be able to do that and more it's just that DY didn't really master it
    That's a valid point. And yet, in Jin Yong universe, the early phase of a concept is usually not as amazing as its successors. When Jin Yong wrote about Beiming Shengong, I doubt he thought of the ability to AFOVCO yet.
    TC to Ken: "You need to watch the ending of ROCH 83."

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    The "trick" is having weird + unconventional + unpredictable techniques to compensate for lack of internal energy. It's the same thing with Zhou Zhiruo, the Persians, Yinggu, and practitioners of Pixie Jianfa (apologies to CC).
    BXJF was designed with having strong internal. No way after one month can they train their internal to anywhere near the level prescribed. BXJF should produce limitless power to dominate like how DFBB was.
    내가 황제라면, 모든 단어에 의미를 부여하기 위해 사전을 만드는 일 부터 시작할 것이다.

    AkA: strife_au in the old mythic golden era of SPCNET pre-2007... Pioneer and architect of chaos... The legend lives.

  15. #75
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cristal entity View Post
    BXJF was designed with having strong internal. No way after one month can they train their internal to anywhere near the level prescribed. BXJF should produce limitless power to dominate like how DFBB was.
    In the novel, it was obvious that weird technique is what propelled the Pixie Jianfa practitioners to stardom. When Lin Pingzhi easily subdued Yu Canghai, it was explicitly stated that Lin Pingzhi had almost zero internal energy. They might cultivate more internal energies after a long time, but within the novel, what we saw was essentially the same thing that pushed Yinggu, Zhou Zhiruo, and the Persians to stardom. So Pixie Jianfa is not the only thing that featured "with 1 month's training, noobs became world beaters, how can you resist that?".
    Last edited by PJ; 08-26-08 at 09:44 AM.
    TC to Ken: "You need to watch the ending of ROCH 83."

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    lin ping zhi had only the speed but no internal, even yu cang hai felt it.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    That's a valid point. And yet, in Jin Yong universe, the early phase of a concept is usually not as amazing as its successors. When Jin Yong wrote about Beiming Shengong, I doubt he thought of the ability to AFOVCO yet.
    by using XXDF will cause fire deviation if you can't control the energies you have absorbed, while with BMSG the sky is the limit for how much internal you suck

  18. #78
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    In the novel, it was obvious that weird technique is what propelled the Pixie Jianfa practitioners to stardom. When Lin Pingzhi easily subdued Yu Canghai, it was explicitly stated that Lin Pingzhi had almost zero internal energy. They might cultivate more internal energies after a long time, but within the novel, what we saw was essentially the same thing that pushed Yinggu, Zhou Zhiruo, and the Persians to stardom. So Pixie Jianfa is not the only thing that featured "with 1 month's training, noobs became world beaters, how can you resist that?".
    I wouldn't say it was weird movement. Rather, it was weird how the attacking movement got in when it really shouldn't have. At a higher level, such as how it was used by Lin YuanDu, it's actually a type of formlessness since the technique didn't matter so much as the intent.

    The actual movements of PXJF were well known, seen by and even executed by a large number of people. But the strokes were actually rather ordinary and didn't have great power.

    PXJF's internal energy is purely focused on speed. Being completely unorthodox it's not unusual that the usual effects of strong orthodox internal energy were not seen at the lower levels.


    This doesn't make it any less of a "noob to world beater" martial art, but since the speed is derived completely from internal energy, you can't say it doesn't provide a fast boost in that area. It's just that application is 100% diverted to speed.

    Hmm, this makes PXJF even more crazy since it does give a quick internal energy boost as well (even if it's not applicable to anything but speed at first). Arguably the internal energy was already there and is now just used for something other than its original purpose...



    This gives me a crazy idea. PXJF needs castration because otherwise the energy build up would cause fire deviation. YJJ allows one to manipulate the body such that even the tendons could be changed. What if someone who mastered YJJ, "disconnected" the requisite body parts while training PXJF? Fire deviation would be avoid without having to resort to a more permanent "disconnection". I wonder what the effects would be like...
    Last edited by ChronoReverse; 08-26-08 at 04:37 PM.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
    PXJF's internal energy is purely focused on speed. Being completely unorthodox it's not unusual that the usual effects of strong orthodox internal energy were not seen at the lower levels.
    Exactly so.

    When Yu Canghai's master was discussing the BXJF with Yue Buqun's master, it was commented that the swordplay seemed ordinary, but that there were certain oddities about it that allowed certain parts of it to speed up unimaginably quickly. But no longer how long they examined those strange parts, they could not understand how they allowed for the practitioner to suddenly increase his speed. What they did not realize was that the quickness was the 'real' part; the oddness was fake, designed to disguise the natural blazing speed. This was most likely because Lin Yuantu was trying to hide the origins of his martial arts, having 'stolen' it from Shaolin and Huashan.

    Remember, Lin Yuantu's understanding of KHBD was considerably greater than that provided by the manual DFBB used, due to the fact that the manual was created based upon his casual pointers and advice to the two debating Huashan disciples. With that being the case, how could it be that the actual technique of the BXJF could be so totally crap? The answer is that the style itself was fake, a mask for the real martial arts he gained, stolen from Huashan, which had stolen it in turn from Shaolin. The 72 strokes of the BXJF were all essentially 'fake'; the speed which lay behind the BXJF is the real power behind the art.

    Which basically means that the full power of KHBD was never shown in the story; the one which DFBB used was based on Lin Yuantu's casual explanations, whereas the one which Lin Yuantu gained fame with, he purposefully diluted and masked in order to hide its origins. This is why many people think that KHBD may very well be the most incredible martial arts in Jinyong.
    Last edited by Ren Wo Xing; 08-26-08 at 04:44 PM.
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    There is a big distinction between speed and power.

    In the real world, speed = power (kinetic energy = 1/2 mv^2, m is constant).

    In the MA universe, this is simply not true. When HR fought GJ, H7G told GJ NOT to worry about HR's weird dancing palms, and just blast through. The speed of his palm is not amazing, but the power behind them was much stronger.

    There are other examples of "slow" palms being quite devastating. Note the soundless palm of GJ vs MCF. The impact didn't seem to change at all, despite the lower speed.

    So if speed is completely separate from power, it is possible that even with "max speed" KHBD is still far inferior to the super MA from DGSD.

    For instance, BMSG users have 10x the internal as the PXJF user, and then just thrashes the poor guy with tidal waves of force. Since the PXJF user cannot physically hurt the far superior internal user, he gets crushed (literally).

    Now, the exception MIGHT be a really really sharp sword (like yi tian sword) used by the super speedy KHBD user. First, we have no evidence that ANY weapon can hurt the "super" internals (XJ, SPT, Sweeps). Second, Lin Yuantu's martial arts were profound, but he didn't command the same amount of FEAR that other artists commanded. Even RWX commanded a much larger amount of fear than Lin Yuantu, despite the latter having far superior sword skills.

    Maybe it's just overrated?

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