Titles & forms of address in wuxia drama

[PJ]

Bathrooms did not exist in Jin Yong universe because there was no need for it -- nobody seemed to undergo excretion.

[sniffles]

Words for "uncle" include:

1. 伯父 bo2 fu4 [informal: 伯伯 bo2 bo] - Older brother of one's father or equivalent.
2. 叔父 shu1 fu4 [informal: 叔叔 shu1 shu] - Younger brother of one's father or equivalent.
3. 舅父 jiu4 fu4 [informal: 舅舅 jiu4 jiu] - Older/younger brother of one's mother. This is usually not used as a form of respectful address for male non-relatives who are one generation older than the speaker.


IIRC, there's one retainer called 孙仲寿 Sun Zhongshou (Sun1 Zhong1 Shou4) whom Yuan Chengzhi addresses as Sun-shushu 孙叔叔 (Uncle Sun). Could it be him?

On the other hand, it might not even be a person at all. Since English syntax differs from Chinese, the words you heard could have been those relating to other parts of speech. E.g.:
这是我 zhe4 shi4 wo3 - This is my ....
这所 zhe4 suo3 - This could be ....

It's probably not "bathroom", because "bathroom" tends to go by another term during those times, e.g. 茅厕 mao2 ce4 .... unless there was visual indication, or better still, confirmation!

My audio lessons just recently introduced the word for toilet, defined in that context as bathroom. The form of address used in these dramas just reminded me of it, but that may just be my interpretation of the sounds.

Speaking of words for bathroom, though, I noticed that in an episode of ROCH '06 Yang Guo's dialogue does use mao2 ce4.

As far as what term the characters are been addressed by, it seems to be a title/courtesy term, used in the same way that someone would be addressed as xiong di or mei mei or bo bo. It's always used immediately after the person's name, and is used every time the person's name is spoken by the character who uses that term to address that person (in the specific instances I cited, Hu Fei addressing Ping Si or Yuan Chengzhi addressing his father's retainers who took care of him). I'll listen more closely next time I watch and try to determine if I'm misinterpreting the sounds.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Maybe it's 'shi1 shu1' or 'shi1 bo2'?

[sniffles]

Maybe it's 'shi1 shu1' or 'shi1 bo2'?

I'll bet it's shi1 shu1. I'll listen very carefully next time I watch SSWRB.

What's the translation of that term?

[Ren Wo Xing]

Shi1 shu1=Master-Uncle.

It's a term which would be applied to people in the same generation of your master, who has some sort of familial relationship with them. So your master's co-apprentices in the same sect would be your 'martial uncle'; likewise, close friends of your master might also be addressed as 'martial uncle'.

[Hoju!]

If it is a form of address that Yuan Chengzhi uses, he does not have any 'shi shu' or 'shi bo', so I don't think he would be using either of those terms (and I don't recall him using either in the series).

He addresses his father's retainers as Sun-shushu [Uncle Sun] and Zhu-shushu [Uncle Zhu]. At least, those are the two that I recall.

[JamesG]

Bathrooms did not exist in Jin Yong universe because there was no need for it -- nobody seemed to undergo excretion.

Except ZBT.

[sniffles]

If it is a form of address that Yuan Chengzhi uses, he does not have any 'shi shu' or 'shi bo', so I don't think he would be using either of those terms (and I don't recall him using either in the series).

He addresses his father's retainers as Sun-shushu [Uncle Sun] and Zhu-shushu [Uncle Zhu]. At least, those are the two that I recall.

That would certainly make more sense for Hu Fei addressing Ping Si. It would be very odd for him to call Ping Si 'shi shu'.

[sniffles]

Of course, now I'm into episodes of SSWRB that don't include Yuan Chengzhi's martial uncles, so he isn't addressing anyone by that term.

Off on another tangent, I notice sometimes an actor will say the same word twice in succession in a sentence. For example instead of just "ni3 kan4" they'll say "ni3 kan4 kan4". Is that just done for emphasis? In other words, the first example would be equivalent to saying "Look!" in English, while the second would be "LOOK!"?

I'm too impatient to wait for my audio lessons to explain this, if they ever do.

[HuangYushi]

That would certainly make more sense for Hu Fei addressing Ping Si. It would be very odd for him to call Ping Si 'shi shu'.

I think Hu Fei called Ping Si "Si4 Shu1" 四叔, or "Uncle Si".
Note the difference between si4 四 and shi1 师.

Off on another tangent, I notice sometimes an actor will say the same word twice in succession in a sentence. For example instead of just "ni3 kan4" they'll say "ni3 kan4 kan4". Is that just done for emphasis? In other words, the first example would be equivalent to saying "Look!" in English, while the second would be "LOOK!"?

Yeah, that's how it works in certain contexts, like the one you mentioned.

[expression]

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but should a female teacher be called 師傅 or 師娘? I've always thought it should be 師傅, until Zhang Ziyi starting calling her lady teacher 師娘 in that notorious Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. I thought 師娘 means the teacher's wife??

Did Li An misunderstand it to be 師父 and thus set out to "right the cultural wrongs" as he always love to do?

[sniffles]

I was watching another episode of SSWRB last night, and one of Yuan Chengzhi's martial uncles showed up. It definitely sounded like he was saying 'shu1 shu' that time. I guess I needed to clean out my ears previously.

I'm starting to pick up enough vocabulary from my audio lessons that I can actually recognize whole sentences in the dialogue, and occasionally I can even say, "Hey, that subtitle is not what he said!"

[Ren Wo Xing]

RE expression: We actually had a discussion about that on this thread. See here:

http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showpost...3&postcount=42

http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showpost...1&postcount=47

RE sniffles: Good to hear. Keep it up!

[sniffles]

RE expression: We actually had a discussion about that on this thread. See here:

http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showpost...3&postcount=42

http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showpost...1&postcount=47

RE sniffles: Good to hear. Keep it up!

Regarding expression's question, I noticed in an episode of ROCH '06 I was watching last night that GJ referred to HR as 'shimu' at one point while speaking to the Wu brothers. I assume that this is because he's speaking of his wife, whereas when the Wu brothers address HR in person they call her 'shiniang'.

Another question: I don't know if this is just in the tv version or also in the novel, but when YG takes CY and LWS and his sworn sisters, afterward in the tv series he addresses them as 'er mei' (second sister) and 'san mei' (third sister). Why isn't one of them first sister?

[Ren Wo Xing]

Regarding expression's question, I noticed in an episode of ROCH '06 I was watching last night that GJ referred to HR as 'shimu' at one point while speaking to the Wu brothers. I assume that this is because he's speaking of his wife, whereas when the Wu brothers address HR in person they call her 'shiniang'.

Another question: I don't know if this is just in the tv version or also in the novel, but when YG takes CY and LWS and his sworn sisters, afterward in the tv series he addresses them as 'er mei' (second sister) and 'san mei' (third sister). Why isn't one of them first sister?

Didn't watch ROCH '06, so I'm not sure. But 'shimu' and 'shiniang' can be used relatively interchangeably, as 'mu' and 'niang' both mean 'mother'.

In sworn brotherhood/sisterhoods, there is a strict, clear hierarchy based usually entirely on age. The eldest is #1, the second is #2, and so on and so forth. In this context, 'second sister' and 'third sister' refer to their ranking within the overall hierarchy, rather a gender-based ranking. In this case, Yang Guo himself is older than both of him, so he occupies the 'first' position; they would address him as 'da ge', 'elder brother' (for the 'first' position, the term 'da', 'big/elder', is used, rather than an actual number). They themselves, therefore, would respectively be 'second sister' and 'third sister', based upon their ages.

[expression]

Thanks. My own take is that it doesn't depend on how skilled the lady is, but whether the disciple is HERS. So say if she took a student when she was still single, she should still be called shifu after she marries, even to someone within the same school. And if a married lady takes a student, she would be called shifu.

A weary technicality, like an annoying fly that somehow found its way into my little head. And I haven't read wuxia for so long.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Let's be realistic. People usually don't take disciples until their forties or fifties, ie, until they are considered masters. How many single female martial artists who reached master level and got married when they were 50 that you know of?

[expression]

Well, our classic Xiao Long Nu took a student at around 20 and then got married to him. Wuxia is the world for the improbables and impossibles isn't it.

[JamesG]

Then there was the incredible Sun Bu'er, who as a wife and mother, didn't even get started until she was past 50. Ended up a Taoist Immortal.

[Ren Wo Xing]

XLN, aside from being a 'special case', was never called 'shifu' by Yang Guo, and still doesn't fall under the category which I mentioned. Sun Bu'er, as with the rest of the Quanzhen disciples, is considered to no longer be a member of the laity, and thus, as with any nun or Taoist female, can be a 'shifu'. So neither fall under the very narrow category which I mentioned.