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Thread: is Beiming Shengong more awe-inspiring than we thought?

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Default is Beiming Shengong more awe-inspiring than we thought?

    Duan Yu was only able to absorb other people's internal energy via the placement of his thumb on the opponent. However, this limitation is due to Duan Yu not having mastered Beiming Shengong:

    他的北冥神功只练成一路手太阴肺经,只有大拇指的少商穴和人相触,而对方又正在运劲,方能吸入内力 ,其余穴道却全不管用。

    He has only learned one aspect of Beiming Shengong, which dictates that his thumb must make physical contact with the opponent, and the opponent must be generating internal energy, in order to absorb from the opponent.

    Does this mean that Beiming Shengong possibly offers more flexible ways to absorb, and perhaps even AOETTA: Absorbing Of Energy Through The Air?
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Through air: No.
    More flexible ways: Yes.

    Xixing Dafa in XAJH allowed for the practitioner to absorb internal energy even via non-living mediums, such as swords. Several times, when LHC's sword clashed with an opponent's (such as Chong Xu), they felt their internal energy weakening and rushing out of them.

    In addition, we also know that Xixing Dafa can be exerted through any part of the body; that is why, when the 6 Peach Valley Fairies grabbed LHC, they immediately released him in terror, after LHC exerted the power of XXDF against them.

    If XXDF can do it, I think that the art from which it was derived from has a good shot of doing it as well.
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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Through air: No.
    How can you be so certain?
    With all the phenomenal features in DGSD (invisible sword qi, soul searching, age-reversing, etc),
    AOETTA doesn't seem out of the question.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    No, as in that would be pure speculation without any evidence upon which we can make that sort of claim.
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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    No, as in that would be pure speculation without any evidence upon which we can make that sort of claim.
    True that we don't know for sure.
    But IMO the chance of AOETTA is high since that passage I quoted opens the door
    to a wide range of possibilities that we haven't seen from Beiming Shengong,
    AND we know the level of fantasticality DGSD martial arts can reach.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Too much speculation there I'd think. BMSG doesn't specifically say that absorbing too much energy would make you glow (the ocean overflowing) but that's not very likely either.

    In any case, since qi itself is rather air-like in quality, it doesn't seem like a very good medium for absorbing energy through.

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    True that we don't know for sure.
    Not that we don't know for sure. That we have no evidence at all supporting the specific assertion that BMSG practitioners can draw internal energy through the air.

    But IMO the chance of AOETTA is high since that passage I quoted opens the door
    to a wide range of possibilities that we haven't seen from Beiming Shengong,
    A wide range of possibilities, but only a few with any corroborating evidence whatsoever. Drawing energy through the air is not one of the possibilities with any corroborating evidence. I think drawing internal energy through weapons and through other parts of the body essentially covers what the passage described as 'other methods'.

    AND we know the level of fantasticality DGSD martial arts can reach.
    Again, no direct bearing on BMSG being able to draw energy through the air.

    Basically, it's pure speculation. Everything you cite at best can bolster the argument that the speculation isn't completely impossible, but nothing which has been cited can serve as proof, direct or circumstantial, that the speculation is likely. You might as well say that there is a high chance of using BMSG to draw internal energy from plants, because the passage opens up a "wide range of possibilities" and "We know the level of fantasticality DGSD martial arts can reach".

    Sorry to burst your bubble, PJ.
    Last edited by Ren Wo Xing; 05-27-08 at 03:02 PM.
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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    Not that we don't know for sure. That we have no evidence at all supporting the specific assertion that BMSG practitioners can draw internal energy through the air.
    I'm not saying they definitely could or could not. I'm just saying, it's not out of the question. Just think of as an unproven speculation.

    A wide range of possibilities, but only a few with any corroborating evidence whatsoever. Drawing energy through the air is not one of the possibilities with any corroborating evidence. I think drawing internal energy through weapons and through other parts of the body essentially covers what the passage described as 'other methods'.
    There's no evidence because there's not a single soul in the Jin Yong universe who's been able to produce Beiming Shengong at its peak. And unlike the more descriptive mythical arts such as 6MSJ, this art has very little background information. We don't know who invented it, when it was invented, what it can do at its peak, etc. We only know that what Duan Yu performed was far from the peak, we don't know what the peak is.

    Basically, it's pure speculation.
    Yes, but it isn't baseless.

    You might as well say that there is a high chance of using BMSG to draw internal energy from plants, because the passage opens up a "wide range of possibilities" and "We know the level of fantasticality DGSD martial arts can reach".
    Energy conversion from plants to human internal energy is a little extreme, don't you think? Whereas the ability to perform feats through the air, from Sealing of Acupoints to LDA, is something consistently demonstrated in Jin Yong's later novels. Absorbing Energy Through The Air would not be too far fetched considering the family of "through the air" feats, unlike something off-the-wall like "interspecies energy conversion***."

    *** Cool idea though.
    Last edited by PJ; 05-27-08 at 03:21 PM.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Energy conversion from plants to human internal energy is a little extreme, don't you think? Whereas the ability to perform feats through the air, from Sealing of Acupoints to LDA, is something consistently demonstrated in Jin Yong's later novels. Absorbing Energy Through The Air would not be too far fetched considering the family of "through the air" feats, unlike something off-the-wall like "interspecies energy conversion***."

    *** Cool idea though.
    Actually, I can't take credit from it. I was thinking of Gulong's Mingyu Shengong, in the Legendary Siblings, where it was said that Yao Yue was able to draw energy from the earth itself and from everything around her to replenish her energy in battle. Crazy stuff.

    Anyhow, I do think it is very far fetched; for example, although many martial artists could strike through the air (ie, project energy outwards), virtually none could do the opposite and pull objects through the air towards them, like Xiao Feng did with Qinlong Shou (ie, pull energy inwards). The two are on completely different levels of ability and skill, and the same should apply for draining internal energy as well. BMSG through the air would be to normal BMSG as normal BMSG is to your average, high (but not top tier) internal arts; on an entirely different level.
    Last edited by Ren Wo Xing; 05-27-08 at 04:28 PM.
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    Senior Member sarakoth's Avatar
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    I think that transferring internal energy through the air is much more difficult than doing so through a solid. Solid just happens to be a better medium for internal energy.

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    What I wonder is, could you drain palm wind. Like, someone attacks you with a LDA and you just absorb it, the fierce wind totally dissipating out of nowhere like you were Sweeps.
    Reverend Rongku prepared himself.

    Suddenly, he toss his hands and screamed: "I am not human! I am an animal!"

    The crowd startled at such a bizarre beginning to the story.

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    The thing is, AFAIK there isn't actual 'qi' energy in palm wind; there's just force. If people were leaking qi with each blast, they would soon have none left!
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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    Actually, I can't take credit from it. I was thinking of Gulong's Mingyu Shengong, in the Legendary Siblings, where it was said that Yao Yue was able to draw energy from the earth itself and from everything around her to replenish her energy in battle. Crazy stuff.
    She must not absorb very much of the earth's available energy then, or else she'd be superwoman. This is up there with turning the universe upside down and freeze time and space. Thanks, I'll remember this.

    I too had touched the tip of this idea in the late RPG game. Here is a fun excerpt:

    ------------------------
    "He did not stop there. This boy was not just disturbing. There was a major chemical inbalance in his brain that enabled him to think several tens to hundreds of times faster than normal humans. He became fascinated with a thing called science."

    Science!

    The heroes of Central Plains had only heard of such an advanced concept in myths.

    "He experimented with a variety of chemical solutions, while consulting traditional Chinese medical manuscripts, all the while learning from several kung fu manuals."

    "In his 30s, he had successfully developed a formula where he mixes a rare breed of weed with his homegrown chemical saturation, and fresh drops of blood of virgins."

    "These virgins are fed with a special diet of herbs, are kept away from sunlight. It is said that due to their strict diet, if they ever caught a glimpse of sunlight, they would die a horrible death."

    "This patented formula enables him to double his martial arts with each intake."

    Double his martial arts with each intake!

    His martial arts doubles its power weekly!


    Anyhow, I do think it is very far fetched; for example, although many martial artists could strike through the air (ie, project energy outwards), virtually none could do the opposite and pull objects through the air towards them, like Xiao Feng did with Qinlong Shou (ie, pull energy inwards).
    Ah, but how difficult is rLDA (reverse LDA - pulling stead of pushing) -- is it really as prestigious as most believe? I don't think so, seeing how Duan Yanqing was also capable of this feat:

    忽听得咕咚一声,一个人倒在门边,正是云中鹤。段延庆吃了一惊,暗叫道:“不好!”左掌凌空一抓,欲运虚劲将钢杖拿回手中,不料一抓之下,内力运发不出,地下的钢杖丝毫不动。段延庆吃惊更甚,当下不动声色,右掌又是运劲一抓,那钢杖仍是不动,一提气时,内息也已提不上来,知道在不知不觉之中,已中了旁人的道儿。

    From the above passage, we can see that Duan Yanqing was most likely capable of rLDA. The novel didn't make a big fuss over this ability; it was treated like a normal skill when Duan Yanqing and Jiumozhi performed it. Only when Xiao Feng performed it was Feng Bo'e astonished, but that can be attributed to Feng's low calibre of martial arts.

    I think it's one of the underwritten feats that Jin Yong probably forgot to include elsewhere, but I doubt it's a lot harder to train than fLDA -- forward LDA.

    The two are on completely different levels of ability and skill, and the same should apply for draining internal energy as well. BMSG through the air would be to normal BMSG as normal BMSG is to your average, high (but not top tier) internal arts; on an entirely different level.
    I think in general, the ability to do things "through the air" is a sign of greater internal energy and power. A 9th tier fighter such as Zuo Zimu is probably only capable of exerting martial arts via physical contact, but a top tier fighter such as Xiao Feng can exert martial arts "through the air" without physical contact. Similarly, someone at Duan Yu's mastery can only absorb human energy via physical contact, but someone several times more proficient and/or powerful may very well be able to perform AOETTA. Not saying someone at that calibre definitely exists, but it is generally true that "through the air" is the higher-level form of physical contact.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    I think Yao Yue can only absorb it to replenish the energy she herself used up in battle. So basically she can never tire, but she can't actually increase her max energy either.
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