Huang Rong's real martial arts level

[PJ]

I always wondered how far behind the Greats Huang Rong was. Now I think I have the answer. In ROCH chapter 31, it was said that Huang Rong's internal energy abundance is inferior to Wu Santong's. This would put Huang Rong so far behind the Greats that she could be smashed into pieces by her husband in one stance.

Remember: Wu Santong < Zhu Ziliu < Ma Yu < Xiaoxiang Zi in martial arts. Now we know that Huang Rong < Wu Santong < Zhu Ziliu < Ma Yu < Xiaoxiang Zi, in terms of internal energy.

Of course, her technique is much better than her internal energy level, so in the end she'd bump up a level. But it's still not enough to come close to Great-level. Just look at how she lost to Post-16 years Golden Wheel Monk in one stance.

[shadow8899]

One of the things that I do not like about ROCH is I don't think we ever got to see HR at her full potential... There was always something hindering her. She was pregnant, she just gave birth, her daughter just jumped off a cliff, etc....

[Candide]

Huang Rong made it very clear a few times in LOCH that she's lazy and didn't want to learn martial arts. She only learnt from HQG so that he would teach Guo Jing. She learnt 9 Yin with Guo Jing to help him learn, to help dealing with the enemies (the Ouyangs) and also treat it more like a bonding experience. She didn't have the same passion & ambition than the Greats had, although she certainly had the talents.

[PJ]

Huang Rong made it very clear a few times in LOCH that she's lazy and didn't want to learn martial arts. She only learnt from HQG so that he would teach Guo Jing. She learnt 9 Yin with Guo Jing to help him learn, to help dealing with the enemies (the Ouyangs) and also treat it more like a bonding experience. She didn't have the same passion & ambition than the Greats had, although she certainly had the talents.

Sounds like Wang Yuyan (learn to guide other),
and Duan Yu (got talent but no interest).

[jsamador]

But by the end of ROCH wasn't she the best female practitioner of MA? Even Li Mochou couldn't hold a candle to her.

[Ren Ying Ying]

But by the end of ROCH wasn't she the best female practitioner of MA? Even Li Mochou couldn't hold a candle to her.

depends on what you consider XLN's level is.

[ChanceEncounter]

She was better than LMC, who was mentioned to be at least the level of Zhu Ziliu, so we don't know. Internal wise, I don't think very many women in Jin Yong's novels were very strong in that department.

I still think at the end though, XLN was the strongest female depicted in ROCH.

[kyss of the sword]

comparing huang rong to wu santong is like comparing LHC to ZLC, the latter has better inner power but the former has better skills. huang rong's strenght was inferior to wu santong who had great external strenght as well as refined inner power. but her skills were far better and she could defeat him without too much trouble.

[jsamador]

Considering that Wu Santong had an edge of how many years in internal energy development, Huang Rong wouldn't certainly be his match but technique-wise, HR's background was much richer. Had she not been pregnant during JLFW's attack in XiangYang, she could have faced him better than Xiao Long Nu.

[bpeh123]

I think it is very hard to gauge where her level is coz she doesnt show off much. I agree that someone with low internal doesnt mean they are inferior. LHC and XLN proves low internal can win elite fighters as well.

I remembered she fought with qiu qian chi awhile back and we can use that to gauge where she is? If memory serves me right, she also had a brief spar with ou yang feng early in ROCH. The fight with li mou chou made me feel like she is way superior to her...

In conclusion, i am confused as well.

[ChanceEncounter]

Well, she is superior to LMC, but at the same time, mentions that she believes she couldn't take Gongsun Zhi by herself. So realistically, her level would be in between those two.

[kyss of the sword]

GSZ was close to JLFW's level. JLFW guaged GSZ's sword technique to be equal to his wheel technique, and his martial arts to be on par with him. he provoked a fight between GSZ and both XLN and Yg because he wanted to see them figt an expert of his caliber so he can see the strong points of their swordplay. HR was not at great level so she wouldn't be able to face GSZ and win on her own, but when LMC and HR both fought against GSZ, GSZ decided to retreat. HR is not so weak that a great can smash her in one move.

[Ken Cheng]

GSZ was close to JLFW's level. JLFW guaged GSZ's sword technique to be equal to his wheel technique, and his martial arts to be on par with him.

That would make Gung Sheun Tze a *Greats*-level fighter.

He was powerful, but no one has ever described Gung Sheun Tze as being even remotely in Greats-class contention.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Jinlun Guoshi made no such appraisal. It's just kyss authoritatively stating things that never happened again. The only reference that was made which included JLGS and GSZ's martial arts was that his Yin Yang Wild Blades technique was something which JLGS had never seen before.

Moreover, it was specifically stated that GSZ's sword/sabre technique was mysterious and could confuse an opponent, but that if it didn't achieve immediate victory, it's power would decrease. And his pressure-point immunity was 'hard to learn, but easy to break'.

[jsamador]

Huang ROng might not be greats level but she's not a pushover either. She admits that she's just lazy. Otherwise, with all the martial arts she has, she could be very well the next great female after Lin Chaoying.

[Ken Cheng]

The only reference that was made which included JLGS and GSZ's martial arts was that his Yin Yang Wild Blades technique was something which JLGS had never seen before.

Given that the Golden Wheel Monk had only recently arrived in the Central Plains after having spent his entire life up to that point in Tibet and/or Mongolia, there must have been many martial arts techniques that he hadn't seen before.

Until he met Gwok Jing, the Golden Wheel Monk likely never saw the Hong Lung 18 Palms before. Until his disciples fought against the disciples of South Emperor 1 Deng, he likely never saw 1 Yeung Finger Technique before.

He couldn't have seen too much out there in the hinterlands.

[ChanceEncounter]

The Tibeten/Mongolian Empire was pretty large then, he probably saw his fair share of power martial arts. It's hard to imagine someone getting to his level in a void.

But you're probably right. He was more impressed with the exoticism of GSZ's abilities rather than his ability. GSZ wasn't great level, but he wasn't miles behind either.

[jsamador]

I doubt GSZ was near enough greats level. it was just that his MA was hidden from the rest of the martial world so it would seem amazing.

[goodrick]

GSZ was close to JLFW's level. JLFW guaged GSZ's sword technique to be equal to his wheel technique, and his martial arts to be on par with him. he provoked a fight between GSZ and both XLN and Yg because he wanted to see them figt an expert of his caliber so he can see the strong points of their swordplay. HR was not at great level so she wouldn't be able to face GSZ and win on her own, but when LMC and HR both fought against GSZ, GSZ decided to retreat. HR is not so weak that a great can smash her in one move.

Wow, did you just completely make that up or maybe I missed the whole thing about JLFW thinking GSZ was his level?

[Kenny]

I always wondered how far behind the Greats Huang Rong was. Now I think I have the answer. In ROCH chapter 31, it was said that Huang Rong's internal energy abundance is inferior to Wu Santong's. This would put Huang Rong so far behind the Greats that she could be smashed into pieces by her husband in one stance.

One thing you should consider is that happened about a month after she had given birth, and the child birth must've weakened her tremendously and she hadn't fully recovered yet. Didn't stop her from defeating LMC though, which showed that she really had become a very formidable fighter in RoCH.

Another thing is that the novel said 功力 (canto: Gung Lik; mando: Gong Li), which isn't always the same as inner power. It is sometimes but it depends on context. In this case I'd rather interpret it as palm strength as she was attacking w/ her palm.