View Poll Results: Which of the LOCH first teacher generation did you like more?

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  • Gong Nam 7 Freaks

    10 62.50%
  • Yau Chui Gei

    6 37.50%
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Thread: The LOCH "first martial arts teacher" generation - your preference?

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default The LOCH "first martial arts teacher" generation - your preference?

    Independent of who their students were (Gwok Jing and Yeung Hong), which of their first martial arts teachers did you find more interesting/likeable - the Gong Nam 7 Freaks or Yau Chui Gei?

    Note: this is not a martial arts comparison, but a personality comparison.

  2. #2
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    Ke Zhen E may have been short tempered, but Han Baoju, Nan Xiren and in particular, Han Xiaoying cared a lot for Guo Jing. LOCH Qiu Chuji didn't have many likeable characteristics.

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    Didn't a couple of Freaks smack Guo Jing ever so often?

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    Default Qiu Chuji: Less Likeable, More Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Independent of who their students were (Gwok Jing and Yeung Hong), which of their first martial arts teachers did you find more interesting/likeable - the Gong Nam 7 Freaks or Yau Chui Gei?
    The Jiangnan Seven were probably nicer people on average, and their tragic ending deserves some sympathy - they were just a bunch of local heroes who got drawn into something a bit too big for them. Meanwhile, Qiu "Changchunzi" Chuji was rash, irresponsible, and full of himself. But personally I find him quite interesting, and a lot of the criticism of him in the other thread ("Which JIN YONG characters did not deserve their good outcomes?") is a bit unfair. His character is quite representative of jianghu in general, but perhaps unlike the typical jianghuista, he's clearly shown reflecting - often with remorse - on his failings. There are quite a few characters who feel no such compunction about the harm they've caused to others.

    On the basis I'd much rather read about QCJ than the Seven, I vote (in protest) for the former.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Chen View Post
    Didn't a couple of Freaks smack Guo Jing ever so often?
    Ke Zhen E was the most bad tempered of the Freaks.

  6. #6
    Senior Member shen diao xia's Avatar
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    It's not a fair comparison; 7 against one. I am sure we will be able to find something nice from the 7. Even so, I dislike QCJ, all that righteousness and conformity and yet not one satisfying disciple in the likes of Yang Kang or any of the Quan Zhen lot. There were several times when he was rash as well wasn't he? That incident where half the world was bullying one XLN
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shen diao xia View Post
    There were several times when he was rash as well wasn't he? That incident where half the world was bullying one XLN

    I don't know if you can hold that against Yau Chui Gei or the other Cheun Jen Taoists. If a woman with two swords came to YOUR temple alongside some Mongol warriors (OK, so she wasn't working with them, but YOU don't know that), making threats against your colleagues and disciples when there's been a well-known history of bad blood between your sect and hers, I'm pretty sure you won't be rolling out the red carpet and rushing to the kitchen for tea and bonbons.

    I mean: how considerate would you be towards someone who rushed into your home with weapons drawn?

  8. #8
    Senior Member shen diao xia's Avatar
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    Firstly, these Taoists are not ordinary people but rather distinguished ones who are supposed to be more patient and rational.

    Secondly, what's with ganging up against her. By all means, fight fair and square.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shen diao xia View Post
    Firstly, these Taoists are not ordinary people but rather distinguished ones who are supposed to be more patient and rational.

    Secondly, what's with ganging up against her. By all means, fight fair and square.
    Her skills were deadly. At the time, no single Cheun Jen Sect Taoist could oppose her singlehandedly. We're talking about someone who was close to soloing the Golden Wheel Monk here.

    This wasn't bowling for dollars. This was life or death. Do we hold it against the Cheun Jen 7 Disciples or the Gong Nam 7 Freaks for "ganging up" against a Great or Mui Chiu Fung when it's known that they don't stand a chance one-on-one against those powerful fighters?

    Typical Ancient Tomber psych-trick: play the victim while victimizing others.

  10. #10
    Senior Member shen diao xia's Avatar
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    Yeah, no doubt about how they felt it was a life and death situation. Still, with a bit of patience and investigation, they would have discovered the truth. Didn't that QCJ idiot realise his mistake and regretted afterwards. And he is supposed to be enlightened??

    Another example about respectable wuxia heroes duelling. Most often than when two people agree to a duel, as soon as one finds out the other is not well or disadvantaged, the date will be postponed just to be fair.
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  11. #11
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shen diao xia View Post
    Yeah, no doubt about how they felt it was a life and death situation. Still, with a bit of patience and investigation, they would have discovered the truth. Didn't that QCJ idiot realise his mistake and regretted afterwards. And he is supposed to be enlightened??
    *Waves hand in front of shen diao xia's eyes*

    Snap out it, man! "Patience? Investigation?" This was a matter of life and death. The woman was there to kill. This was not the time for "patience" and "investigation."

    Imagine an armed person runs into your home telling you of his intention to kill somebody in your house. Are you going to stop and say to him, "Oh, I see. May I know whom you're here to kill and why you want to kill him? Sit down, let's talk about it."

    Sure, you can do that...if you want a death on your conscience...or possibly be killed yourself.

    If you want to survive, though, I'd recommend shooting back if you're equipped to do so. The "hows" and "whys" can wait for later. If you don't fight back while you can, however, there won't be a "later" to consider.

    Another example about respectable wuxia heroes duelling. Most often than when two people agree to a duel, as soon as one finds out the other is not well or disadvantaged, the date will be postponed just to be fair.
    This was no duel.

    It was a woman with murderous intent, armed and ready for carnage. She didn't come, red invitation card in hand, looking for an appointed duel. It was on, and she had brought her best skills with her.

  12. #12
    Senior Member shen diao xia's Avatar
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    *waves peace sign in front of Ken with a cynical smile*

    ha ha, the signs of a pro XLN and anti XLN discussion is beginning to show.

    Still, he regretted his actions and acted rashly.....

    and if my memory serves me well, I don't think she could really kill "the guy who raped her" even if she wasn't prevented from doing so. The guy actually saved her in the end and got a pardon from her. On the other hand QCJ and the rest were the ones with murder on their minds.
    Last edited by shen diao xia; 06-06-08 at 12:02 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shen diao xia View Post

    Still, he regretted his actions and acted rashly.....
    He regretted that she'd gotten injured, because he understood that she wasn't evil. But she had come to the Chung Yeung Temple to kill, and as the leader of his sect, Yau Chui Gei was obliged to protect his people.

    He was sorry that she was injured in the process, but I doubt that he regretted taking action to defend his colleagues and disciples from someone who was threatening them.

    If a hostile person invaded my home with an intent to kill, and I needed to kill him in defense of my family, I'd certainly regret having to take another human life (even the attacker's) because I'd prefer to not harm anybody. I would not regret, however, taking action to save myself or my family.

  14. #14
    Senior Member shen diao xia's Avatar
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    I would not regret, however, taking action to save myself or my family.
    Agreed, but he/they could have stopped her from killing and not deal her a lethal blow first time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shen diao xia View Post
    Agreed, but he/they could have stopped her from killing and not deal her a lethal blow first time.
    If you remember correctly, the Cheun Jen Taoists were mainly going after the Golden Wheel Monk. Little Dragon Girl stepped into the death stream of inner power because she was in suicidal mode.

  16. #16
    Senior Member shen diao xia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    If you remember correctly, the Cheun Jen Taoists were mainly going after the Golden Wheel Monk. Little Dragon Girl stepped into the death stream of inner power because she was in suicidal mode.
    Don't think so. The Taoists were not fighting against anybody else with the exception of XLN. They ganged up with the others and bullied a lone rape victim.....
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by shen diao xia View Post
    Don't think so. The Taoists were not fighting against anybody else with the exception of XLN. They ganged up with the others and bullied a lone rape victim.....
    The Golden Wheel Monk, six other Mongol experts, and a detachment of the Mongol army were there at the same time, looking for trouble. The Cheun Jen Sect Taoists thought they were being attacked on two fronts...and for the LOVE OF DAMO, stop making Little Dragon Girl look like the helpless victim here! She had a legitimate grievance against her rapist, sure, but WHO besides she, her rapist, and Chiu Tze Ging was supposed to know that? You had an entire temple full of Taoists under siege on multiple fronts. What were they supposed to do? Beg for mercy? Yeah, *that* would have made Central Divinity proud.

  18. #18
    Senior Member shen diao xia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    The Golden Wheel Monk, six other Mongol experts, and a detachment of the Mongol army were there at the same time, looking for trouble. The Cheun Jen Sect Taoists thought they were being attacked on two fronts...and for the LOVE OF DAMO, stop making Little Dragon Girl look like the helpless victim here! She had a legitimate grievance against her rapist, sure, but WHO besides she, her rapist, and Chiu Tze Ging was supposed to know that? You had an entire temple full of Taoists under siege on multiple fronts. What were they supposed to do? Beg for mercy? Yeah, *that* would have made Central Divinity proud.
    Self explanatory....and Zhen ZhiBing had already taken that near lethal blow for her prior to this. Therefore, no argument on QCJ and his loons protecting ZZB out of necessity.

    "Suddenly, Xiao Longnu gasped loudly, both cheeks lost color. With two sounds of ‘qiang-long’, both swords from her hands fell on the ground. Staring in blank amazement at the pine lined path’s rosebush, she called: “Guo’er is that really you?” At this juncture, Fawang’s golden wheel had sliced her head-on; Quanzhen Five Master’s “Seven Star Rally” pummeled her in the back. "
    Last edited by shen diao xia; 06-06-08 at 02:37 AM.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shen diao xia View Post
    Self explanatory....

    "Suddenly, Xiao Longnu gasped loudly, both cheeks lost color. With two sounds of ‘qiang-long’, both swords from her hands fell on the ground. Staring in blank amazement at the pine lined path’s rosebush, she called: “Guo’er is that really you?” At this juncture, Fawang’s golden wheel had sliced her head-on; Quanzhen Five Master’s “Seven Star Rally” pummeled her in the back. "
    I'm not disputing that the Taoists struck her. It doesn't look like they were aiming for her, though. Their target was the Golden Wheel Monk.

    Why on earth would they go after her first when the Golden Wheel Monk was there? Even if they were both considered threats, the monk was by far the greater threat.

  20. #20
    Senior Member shen diao xia's Avatar
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    Why on earth would they go after her first when the Golden Wheel Monk was there? Even if they were both considered threats, the monk was by far the greater threat.
    Precisely (sorry, I edited my previous post prior to yours), That's why they shld have focused on GWM and gang rather than her. Rash and muddle headed.
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