GWM's elephant attack, the single most powerful attack in LOCH/ROCH?

[LuNaR]

which attack is more powerful? i know the 18 dragon palm is weaker because many people survived it. the metal palm almost killed HR, but HR was pretty weak right? sad palm didnt exactly finish off GWM, so it cant be more powerful.

so what do u guys think?

[PJ]

the metal palm almost killed HR, but HR was pretty weak right?

Qiu Qianren deliberately let Huang Rong live by a thread so that Yideng can exhaust his energy to heal her.

[LuNaR]

Qiu Qianren deliberately let Huang Rong live by a thread so that Yideng can exhaust his energy to heal her.

hmm does that put metal palm near the top of powerful techniques? thats quite powerful

[PJ]

Qiu Qianren deliberately let Huang Rong live by a thread so that Yideng can exhaust his energy to heal her.

Actually, I might have remembered this wrong. I know that Qiu Qianren used this dirty trick on the baby years ago. I don't remember for sure whether he did that again with Huang Rong. Someone else can confirm.

[ChronoReverse]

I thought it was because of the Hedgehog Armor that he didn't do a full power hit on HR? My memory is fuzzy so it would be nice to know for sure.

[Ren Ying Ying]

i don't think QQR was even aware that Guo Jing & Huang Rong even knew about Yideng. Ying Gu on the other hand, was the one who directed them to Yi deng

[Ren Wo Xing]

I thought it was because of the Hedgehog Armor that he didn't do a full power hit on HR? My memory is fuzzy so it would be nice to know for sure.

It had nothing to do with Yideng at all. ChronoReverse and RYY are right. At the time, he had no knowledge of Yideng, or intention of making them visit Yideng. Qiu Qianzhang tricked Huang Rong and Guo Jing to going to the Iron Palm mountain, where Huang Rong antagonized the real Qiu Qianren, who shot out with a powerful palm attack that she did not dodge, thinking it was still Qiu Qianzhang. He hit Huang Rong, then hastily retracted his strikes, both because of the pain from her spikes, and because Guo Jing immediately launched a strike on him. But of course, the powerful palm strength which QQR possessed was enough to badly wound Huang Rong.

With regards to the OP, in terms of the most powerful attack (so long as it lands), it should definitely be a direct hit from GWM's Dragon/Elephant Prana skill.

[ChronoReverse]

In fact, it was a certain death injury (I just reread the section). So even a non-full power hit was able to inflict a fatal injury through the Hedgehog Armor.

[Ren Wo Xing]

In fact, it was a certain death injury (I just reread the section). So even a non-full power hit was able to inflict a fatal injury through the Hedgehog Armor.

Mainly because Huang Rong's internal energy level really was too low, and because she took the palm head on without even trying to dodge. Even directly taking on a palm from a person somewhat weaker than you can be dangerous, much less with this huge level of disparity between HR and QQR.

[jsamador]

Does that mean 18 Dargon Subduing palms isn't as great as it is hyped?

[ChanceEncounter]

Does that mean 18 Dargon Subduing palms isn't as great as it is hyped?

It's still one of the best palm attacks out there, but in each book it appears there are also other abilities that are in the same league or even better. So it's tremendous, just not supreme.

[Ken Cheng]

It's still one of the best palm attacks out there, but in each book it appears there are also other abilities that are in the same league or even better. So it's tremendous, just not supreme.

Hong Lung 18 Palms also tends to be used by compassionate, honorable guys who aren't extraordinarily ruthless. Kiu Fung was given to occassional moments of cutting loose, but North Beggar Hung 7 Gung and Gwok Jing tended to be restrained about unleashing the power of the Hong Lung 18 Palms. Seldom did they unleash its full potential (and then, only against other Greats).

[shortsight]

Hong Lung 18 Palms also tends to be used by compassionate, honorable guys who aren't extraordinarily ruthless. Kiu Fung was given to occassional moments of cutting loose, but North Beggar Hung 7 Gung and Gwok Jing tended to be restrained about unleashing the power of the Hong Lung 18 Palms. Seldom did they unleash its full potential (and then, only against other Greats).

Or in another version, XL18Z was held in high regards not because it is the greatest palm skill, but because it is practiced by greats. Maybe it was Xiao Feng, Guo Jing and Hong Qigong that made the art famous rather than the art made them where they were?

XL18Z at the hands of beggar elders were lousy after all.

[ChronoReverse]

The elders under H7G each knew 1 move of HL18P at most. Even then, that one move was quite formidable.

It was said that learning the full set multiplied the power (as seen by GJ from 15 vs 18 palms). GJ, even with just the first palm was already much more formidable.

HL18P is definitely a powerful art.

[LuNaR]

The elders under H7G each knew 1 move of HL18P at most. Even then, that one move was quite formidable.

It was said that learning the full set multiplied the power (as seen by GJ from 15 vs 18 palms). GJ, even with just the first palm was already much more formidable.

HL18P is definitely a powerful art.

not as strong as the metal palm though

[ChronoReverse]

Not compared to QQR of course, but there's nobody who's learned just one Iron Palm either. We DO know that one HL18P was incredibly powerful and all of GJ's opponents (in the Jin flunkies) could not take it head-on despite GJ just having learned it.


I don't think we have any reason to believe that Iron Palm is far above or below HL18P but rather that it should be around the same level (Iron Palm was also compared with YYZ).

IIRC, it was stated that HL18P had more raw power while Iron Palms had more technique variations.

[kyss of the sword]

iron palms has more variations and changes then HL18Z but HL18Z still has the best power release of central plains palm skills. toad stance is equal in power to HL18Z and strange and mysterious changes but is hard to learn. only OYF and YG had ever mastered it. HL18Z is also hard to learn, only some one with the right 'attitude' can really master it. elephantdragon wisdom attack has force that is equal to YG's sad palm strike when he was not feling anxiety. ZBT was unable to take the force head on but Guo jing might be able, YG could.

[Ken Cheng]

toad stance is equal in power to HL18Z and strange and mysterious changes but is hard to learn. only OYF and YG had ever mastered it.

Yeung Gor cannot be said to have mastered it. Those fundamentals he learned in early adolescence were all he had of the Ha Mo Gung. That was barely scratching the surface of Au Yeung Fung's skills.

[jsamador]

if i remember correctly, ZBT was able to take the dragon/elephant palm headon with his kongming fist but he was always saying that he could not take on Hong QiGong's dragon subduing palm with the kongming.

would it be the case that these palm powers at their apogee would probably be just equals?

[Ken Cheng]

if i remember correctly, ZBT was able to take the dragon/elephant palm headon with his kongming fist but he was always saying that he could not take on Hong QiGong's dragon subduing palm with the kongming.

would it be the case that these palm powers at their apogee would probably be just equals?

The one time that Hong Lung 18 Palms clashed with Lung Jeung Bor Yeh Gung, the result was an indecisive draw.

There is some irony in the idea that the Golden Wheel Monk's skill is called "Dragon-Elephant" art, and Gwok Jing's skill is the "Dragon-SUBDUING Palms."