At the end of ROCH, Jinlun Guoshi was superior to Guo Jing

[Ken Cheng]

Ren, tell me something, will you?

Is this part of conspiracy to drive me to the funny farm so that you can become the next Wuxia Forum Mod sooner?

If it is, I can tell you...it's working!

[Ren Wo Xing]

Ren, tell me something, will you?

Is this part of conspiracy to drive me to the funny farm so that you can become the next Wuxia Forum Mod sooner?

If it is, I can tell you...it's working!

Actually, no; I recently noticed that we've been having a lot of interesting and energetic debates on SPCNET again (much like the good old days), so I thought I'd toss out a HIGHLY provocative subject/hypothesis that's relatively fresh and new, but arguable, and have everyone have some fun with it

[ChronoReverse]

I throw it back to you then, was every move from GWM unstoppable by ZBT? And does it matter?

ZBT was already using Vacuum Fists, why risk using anything else when he knew that GWM could increase his power at any time back to a fierceness above ZBT's? Vacuum Fists is a high level technique, if GWM attacked half-heartedly, it gives an opportunity for ZBT to injure him.

Therefore, GWM would not have lowered his power too much and ZBT would not have stopped using Vacuum Fists after the first exchange because both knew that the other were formidable.



And the transitivity is the issue. You might be able to compare ZBT to GJ if they fought. But we're comparing ZBT to GWM. So it doesn't apply. ZBT can't match the fierceness of GWM's internal energy, but neither can that same fierceness overcome the softness of ZBT's.



The reason why the Sad Palm being a "trick move" matters is because that particular one was based on a special move from HYS that had to be countered in a special way. You can't just take it directly any more than you can take on a Peach Blossom Island Formation by smashing the formation. What I mean is that ZBT's response was the proper response against a "puzzle"

[Ken Cheng]

Actually, no; I recently noticed that we've been having a lot of interesting and energetic debates on SPCNET again (much like the good old days), so I thought I'd toss out a HIGHLY provocative subject/hypothesis that's relatively fresh and new, but arguable, and have everyone have some fun with it

Well, I'll tell you how it's going.

I'm currently slightly saner than the Joker from BATMAN and will gladly declare Yeung Gor the # 1 Greatest Fighter Past, Present, and Future in All the Omniverse and that Gwok Jing would be beaten up by a sick girl from Lin-An if ONLY YOU GUYS WOULD LEAVE ME ALONE ABOUT IT!

Spare me, please.

*Kneels on ground, broken*

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[Ren Wo Xing]

Well, I'll tell you how it's going.

I'm currently slightly saner than the Joker from BATMAN and will gladly declare Yeung Gor the # 1 Greatest Fighter Past, Present, and Future in All the Omniverse and that Gwok Jing would be beaten up by a sick girl from Lin-An if ONLY YOU GUYS WOULD LEAVE ME ALONE ABOUT IT!

Spare me, please.

*Kneels on ground, broken*

Um, this isn't about you. And I really don't care about Yang Guo either (remember, I'm a XAJH fan).

[Ken Cheng]

Um, this isn't about you.

It's *ALWAYS* about me, Ren.

Not that I want it to be, necessarily, but somehow, it always is...

[Ren Wo Xing]

I throw it back to you then, was every move from GWM unstoppable by ZBT? And does it matter?

ZBT was already using Vacuum Fists, why risk using anything else when he knew that GWM could increase his power at any time back to a fierceness above ZBT's? Vacuum Fists is a high level technique, if GWM attacked half-heartedly, it gives an opportunity for ZBT to injure him.

Therefore, GWM would not have lowered his power too much and ZBT would not have stopped using Vacuum Fists after the first exchange because both knew that the other were formidable.

And yet, ZBT did not use solely use Vacuum Fists against Yang Guo; he took on at least two separate palm attacks from Yang Guo, and although his chest tightened, he still took it on. He refused to take on a single blow from Jinlun Guoshi. What does this say about their respective internal energies?

And the transitivity is the issue. You might be able to compare ZBT to GJ if they fought. But we're comparing ZBT to GWM. So it doesn't apply. ZBT can't match the fierceness of GWM's internal energy, but neither can that same fierceness overcome the softness of ZBT's.

First of all, ZBT couldn't match the abundant power of JLGS's internal energy, not the 'fierceness'. Second, I sense you are not comprehending. This isn't about ZBT and JLGS; this is about JLGS and GJ. ZBT is being used as a yardstick to see how much JLGS has improved, compared to GJ, since we don't have any other method of comparison.

The reason why the Sad Palm being a "trick move" matters is because that particular one was based on a special move from HYS that had to be countered in a special way. You can't just take it directly any more than you can take on a Peach Blossom Island Formation by smashing the formation. What I mean is that ZBT's response was the proper response against a "puzzle"

Nothing suggests that Yang Guo ever learned the "Five Elemental Palm" from HYS, or that was where he got the idea from "Bringing Water With Mud" style.

It's *ALWAYS* about me, Ren.

Not that I want it to be, necessarily, but somehow, it always is...

No.

[Ken Cheng]

No.

Yes.

Definitely yes.

They've been out to get me for years.

They want the satisfaction of seeing a broken Ken Cheng, kneeling before them, meekly declaring Yeung Gor the Greatest of the Greatest and Gwok Jing the lowest garbage in the back alleys of wuxia.

They've been working at it for years, and now, they're on the cusp of victory.

They even rigged the NBA Finals to weaken Ken's resolve. Very deviously clever.

They could be anyone, anywhere...even YOU?!

[jadebunny9]

Yes.

Definitely yes.

They've been out to get me for years.

They want the satisfaction of seeing a broken Ken Cheng, kneeling before them, meekly declaring Yeung Gor the Greatest of the Greatest and Gwok Jing the lowest garbage in the back alleys of wuxia.

They've been working at it for years, and now, they're on the cusp of victory.

They even rigged the NBA Finals to weaken Ken's resolve. Very deviously clever.

They could be anyone, anywhere...even YOU?!

Ken, you're really starting to sound like those people who always think that aliens are out to get them.

[Ken Cheng]

Ken, you're really starting to sound like those people who always think that aliens are out to get them.

But they ARE out to get me!

The aliens *and* the Yeung Gor fans and the Boston Celtics fans.

Say, do you think they might be part of the same group?

[LuNaR]

GWM might be better than GJ, but hes defintiely better than YG. well at least from the series i saw cause the 3 greats had to injure GWM, and YG just barely defeated GWM

[ChronoReverse]

I sense you are not comprehending. This isn't about ZBT and JLGS; this is about JLGS and GJ. ZBT is being used as a yardstick to see how much JLGS has improved, compared to GJ, since we don't have any other method of comparison.

As long as you're trying to use ZBT as a yardstick, arguing that you're using him wrong is completely valid.


Besides, I've made several comments about how your first premise has multiple flaws.

[Ren Wo Xing]

GWM might be better than GJ, but hes defintiely better than YG. well at least from the series i saw cause the 3 greats had to injure GWM, and YG just barely defeated GWM

Not sure what series that is, but not in the novel.

[jadebunny9]

GWM might be better than GJ, but hes defintiely better than YG. well at least from the series i saw cause the 3 greats had to injure GWM, and YG just barely defeated GWM

You just said that GWM is definitely better than YG and then you say that YG defeated GWM. I must have missed your point somewhere Lulu.

[LuNaR]

Not sure what series that is, but not in the novel.

dam....


GO CHRONOREVERSE defend GJ for us!!!

You just said that GWM is definitely better than YG and then you say that YG defeated GWM. I must have missed your point somewhere Lulu.

well i was trying to say the 3 great helped YG and just barely defeated GWM, so if YG fought GWM 1v1, hes going to lose. but i think the series was portraying it wrong so its invalid anyways

[Ken Cheng]

GO CHRONOREVERSE defend GJ for us!!!

Yes...Ken's mind is blown, so ChronoReverse is our last hope...

Help me, ChronoReverse Kenobi...you're my only hope!

[flyingfox2002]

Haha are you guys just being tongue-in-cheek, or do you really care who can beat whom?

[Ken Cheng]

Haha are you guys just being tongue-in-cheek, or do you really care who can beat whom?

It's kind of half and half.

[ChronoReverse]

LOL, I actually don't have an agenda either for or against GJ or GWM. I pretty much only react to what I feel are inconsistencies or insufficient proof for a strong assertion (something this forum really loves).

And I feel there are too many inconsistencies with the given theory as well as it being insufficient proof in itself to be used to argue that GWM was better than GJ since that implies a total package betterness. Even if it were 100% irrefutable, it only gives that GJ had inferior internal energy.

[Ren Wo Xing]

LOL, I actually don't have an agenda either for or against GJ or GWM. I pretty much only react to what I feel are inconsistencies or insufficient proof for a strong assertion (something this forum really loves).

And I feel there are too many inconsistencies with the given theory as well as it being insufficient proof in itself to be used to argue that GWM was better than GJ since that implies a total package betterness. Even if it were 100% irrefutable, it only gives that GJ had inferior internal energy.

lol, well...it's only operating on the basis that at their 'original' levels of relative martial arts, GJ and JLGS were equal; if all else remains equal, but JLGS's 'relative' level of internal energy improves, then JLGS is now greater than GJ. Basically, it's a whole bunch of derivatives.