Zhang Wuji & Golden Wheel Monk & Qiu Qianren -vs- Guo Jing & Yang Guo

[PJ]

These last few years have only made me realize how much GWM and QQR suck as supposedly Greats. They consistently underperform due to their weak mentality.

[ChronoReverse]

Or GJ simply uses L/R,, Vacant Fists along with the Big Dipper Formation and holds off two while YG demonstrates his clear superiority and defeats his single target.

Seriously, even young GJ was able to hold off QRR and OYF for a while (even ZBT added to the mix for a few stances). He ALWAYS overperforms.

Combining the above with 9 Yin and XL18P means that even if he can't gain victory, there's no way to beat for a long time.

[tape]

Is there any way for him to help Yang Guo though if they gang up on him two vs one? Defending has always been shown to be much easier -- but then again perhaps YG could just defend until Guo Jing beats whoever is fighting him 1v1.

[ChronoReverse]

As long as YG isn't too far off from GJ, L/R also let's GJ divide his mind to help out YG independently. As it was said in LOCH, it obviously won't double the power, but the techniques will enjoy a great advantage when L/R is used.

Effectively, they're fighting 2.5 people and not just 2 (even then, working together it'd be hard to defeat YG+GJ).

[tape]

The only thing is that GWM has incredibly powerful palm strikes. I doubt Guo Jing or Yang Guo would be able to handle him + QQR for longer than it would take for either to take down Zhang Wuji, especially as a defensive specialist.

GWM might have weaker technique and not be able to force palm clashes 1v1, but if QQR did most of the attacking while he looks for opportunities to force a palm clash, it would be really hard to withstand. GWM vs GJ or YG in their palm clashes always made both sides stagger and take a second to recover, and during that instant a great level fighter like QQR would kill him.

[PJ]

I don't think GJ used L/R technique upon GWM before... if so and this is the first time Goldie sees it, he will pee in his pants as usual.

[Dirt]

I wonder if Zhang could use Taiji Quan and QKNDY to get Guo to fight himself with L/R technique? Taiji Quan could be a good counter to Xiang Long 18 Zhang and I can't imagine Vacant Fist being superior to it.

Also, if Yang uses the HIS, surely Zhang could use Taiji Jian. That would be a fight to see.

[tape]

I don't think GJ used L/R technique upon GWM before... if so and this is the first time Goldie sees it, he will pee in his pants as usual.

Did ZBT get a chance to use L/R on GWM or did he need all his power to block with Vacant Fists? Regardless, I don't think even GWM is useless enough to not be able to force palm clashes with someone like QQR occupying GJ for a while.

[Ken Cheng]

Does Yeung Gor have the Heavy Iron Sword on him? If he does, I recommend that he go for the quick kill against the weakest of the three opponents (probably Kau Cheen Yan) while Gwok Jing briefly holds off the other two. As long as Yeung Gor can get the quick kill on the weakest enemy link, then he can go take the heat off of Uncle Gwok.

[ChronoReverse]

I wonder if Zhang could use Taiji Quan and QKNDY to get Guo to fight himself with L/R technique? Taiji Quan could be a good counter to Xiang Long 18 Zhang and I can't imagine Vacant Fist being superior to it.

I've thought about that and decided that it was extremely unlikely. QKNDY is specifically stated to be lower than the top Central Plains skills.

Therefore there should be no way for it to shift XL18P or Vacant Fists (H7G acknowledged this to be HIGHER in level than XL18P, think about that). Furthermore, even if Vacant Fists were shifted, it wouldn't be any problem since it's a soft attack that only wounds when internal energy is sent out on contact.

Did ZBT get a chance to use L/R on GWM or did he need all his power to block with Vacant Fists? Regardless, I don't think even GWM is useless enough to not be able to force palm clashes with someone like QQR occupying GJ for a while.

ZBT and GWM never fought for too long; it was only some stances. However, keep in mind ZBT was able to, using just Vacant Fists, to stymie YG (who we know was just as forceful as GWM) from being able to overcome him in a much longer fight (over an hour_

Regardless, I don't think even GWM is useless enough to not be able to force palm clashes with someone like QQR occupying GJ for a while.

It's not really that much about being useless if the fight is as close as 2.5 against 3. ROCH mentioned how top level fighters avoid directly internal energy clashes because it's hard to tell if you're certainly better in this department. Even if you were simply close, you'd end up both just as dead. GWM's mentality is weaker than most so he'd be even more reluctant if he weren't sure he'd win.

[ChronoReverse]

As a sidenote, I've decided that QRR at the end of ROCH was at least a half level below Yideng, HYS, GJ, YG and ZBT.

When GWM met these guys, he'd think that they were amazing, he'd never met anyone like them and how could they have matched his new L10 Dragon and Elephant tech. Therefore he lost all confidence.


But he'd fought QRR not too much earlier in a fair fight and killed him. IF QRR was on that level, GWM should've already realized that he wasn't unmatched in ability.

[tape]

It's not really that much about being useless if the fight is as close as 2.5 against 3. ROCH mentioned how top level fighters avoid directly internal energy clashes because it's hard to tell if you're certainly better in this department. Even if you were simply close, you'd end up both just as dead. GWM's mentality is weaker than most so he'd be even more reluctant if he weren't sure he'd win.

Even GWM should realize that if he forced a palm clash/internal energy duel, then that would free up the other two to land a hit on whoever he is dueling, or go full on 2v1 against the other guy.

That is how I would handle it in a video game anyway -- force palm clash by going 2v1 on someone, then while you're dueling inner strength, force another palm clash on the other guy. Now both guys are stuck in an inner strength duel while the third guy can just leisurely mop them up. Of people with comparable inner strength, it should last at least a while; even Guo Jing during LOCH was able to take a full forced Dragon Palm for a moment, and hang on for a bit.

[tape]

ZBT and GWM never fought for too long; it was only some stances. However, keep in mind ZBT was able to, using just Vacant Fists, to stymie YG (who we know was just as forceful as GWM) from being able to overcome him in a much longer fight (over an hour_

Right, but I doubt that he would be able to handle another Great level fighter attacking him at the same time even with Vacant Fists. Like it was said in LOCH, soft can overcome/nullify hard, but it can only do so if the person using soft was at the same level or equal to the person using hard. If the person using hard was more skilled, no amount of softness would work. In my mind, the combined forces of GWM + QQR would be much too much force for even Vacant Fists to handle since GWM's strength alone was shocking to ZBT.