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Thread: How great was the difference in martial arts level among the Four Great Evils?

  1. #41
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChanceEncounter View Post
    Two areas. The density of strength per area is the same, but the total force is greater. But the example that Ren Wo Xing gave still stands. If you can withstand 70 jin of force with ease, having two people hit you with 50 jin of force would not make you break. The only way that is possible is if they manage to find a way to combine their strength and hit with more than 70 jin of force in one particular blow.

    And again, having two people hit one target at the exact same instance of time is rare.
    If you can withstand 70 jin with ease, that means you can probably withstand 100 jin maximum. In that case, obviously 2 people hitting you with 50 jin each wouldn't break you.

    No.

    Every movement is still occurring at the same speed as if there was only one guy there, there is just another thing to deal with.
    I'm not saying the speed really doubles, but rather, that it produces a similar outcome as the doubling of speed (which is kicking your opponent's a$$ with ease).
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  2. #42
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    I thought DYQ had trouble with ding chun qiu, but my memory could be wrong.

  3. #43
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    And could you link the relevant quote in chapter 43 please? Thanks.
    With pleasure:

    萧峰喝道:你就想走?天下有这等便宜事?你父亲身上有病,大丈夫不屑乘人
    之危,且放了他过去。你可没病没痛!慕容复气往上冲,喝道:那我便接萧兄
    的高招。萧峰更不打话,呼的一掌,一招降龙十八掌中的见龙在田,向慕容
    复猛击过去。他见藏经阁中地势险隘,高手群集,不便久斗,是以使上了十成力,
    要在数掌之间便取了敌人性命。慕容复见他掌势凶恶,当即运起平生之力,要以
    斗转星移之术化解。
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  4. #44
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the.raven View Post
    I thought DYQ had trouble with ding chun qiu, but my memory could be wrong.
    That only happened in DGSD 2003. No such thing happened in the novel, not anything martial arts-related.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    That only happened in DGSD 2003. No such thing happened in the novel, not anything martial arts-related.
    oic, I was wrong then.

  6. #46
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    With pleasure:

    萧峰喝道:“你就想走?天下有这等便宜事?你父亲身上有病,大丈夫不屑乘人
    之危,且放了他过去。你可没病没痛!”慕容复气往上冲,喝道:“那我便接萧兄
    的高招。”萧峰更不打话,呼的一掌,一招降龙十八掌中的“见龙在田”,向慕容
    复猛击过去。他见藏经阁中地势险隘,高手群集,不便久斗,是以使上了十成力,
    要在数掌之间便取了敌人性命。慕容复见他掌势凶恶,当即运起平生之力,要以“
    斗转星移”之术化解。
    Thanks PJ. I'll translate it for everyone else's benefit.

    Xiao Feng loudly shouted, "You want to just walk away? Can there be such an easy thing in the world for you? Your father is sick. A real man doesn't take advantage of an opponent's misfortune. I'll let him go. But you aren't sick or injured." Murong Fu's temper rose. "Then I'll receive brother Xiao's excellent stances!" Xiao Feng didn't even reply to him. With a whooshing sound, he struck out at Murong Fu with a mighty palm, using the stance, "Seeing a Dragon in the Fields" from the Dragon-Subduing Eighteen Palms. He saw that the rows upon rows of scripture shelves served much like a series of narrow passageways. When experts exchanged stances, it wouldn't be convenient for them to stay in this sort of place too long. Therefore, he exerted 100% of his power, intending to take his opponent's life within a number of palms. Murong Fu saw that his palm power was ferocious, and immediately exerted all of his ability, intending to use the "Star Shifting Ability" to dissolve that force.
    PJ, unless I'm interpreting this incorrectly, I really don't think this is an indication that Xiao Feng thinks he can beat Murong Fu in 'under five stances'; my interpretation is that Xiao Feng, seeing that the terrain was ill-suited for experts to fight in for too long, exerted all of his power in an attempt to kill Murong Fu and end the battle as quickly as possible. Whether he thought he could have won in a few stances, or whether he actually could of, is not even realy implied.
    Last edited by Ren Wo Xing; 07-30-08 at 12:06 AM.
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

  7. #47
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    PJ, unless I'm interpreting this incorrectly, I really don't think this is an indication that Xiao Feng thinks he can beat Murong Fu in a number of stances; my interpretation is that Xiao Feng, seeing that the terrain was ill-suited for experts to fight in for too long, exerted all of his power in an attempt to kill Murong Fu and end the battle as quickly as possible. Whether he thought he could have won in a few stances, or whether he actually could of, is not even realy implied.
    He was betting on being able to kill Murong Fu in a few stances (he should know whether this is possible or not by now). On the other hand, Murong Fu only responded with the intention of blocking b/c he had no other choice.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  8. #48
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    Whether or not Xiao Feng could really kill Murong Fu in a few moves, we never saw. However, we did see how fast Jiumozhi took out Murong Fu. Judging by Jiumozhi's finishing move, which was a SOA, I'm sure old Jiu went easy on Murong. I'm sure that Jiu could have done worse things to Murong Fu if he wanted to. In SPW it was mentioned that only a 3rd class fighter would resort to SOA as a finishing move. That Jiu resorted to a 3rd class finishing move on Murong Fu, shows that Jiu did not want to take Murong's life. Otherwise Jiu could have finished Murong even faster and deadlier.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  9. #49
    Senior Member sarakoth's Avatar
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    I think everyone is failing to consider that the efficiency of dealing out damage decreases with more people in a fight. For example, if three people fight one person, the three people might only fight at say 70% because they might not be synchronizing their attacks.

  10. #50
    Senior Member ChanceEncounter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarakoth View Post
    I think everyone is failing to consider that the efficiency of dealing out damage decreases with more people in a fight. For example, if three people fight one person, the three people might only fight at say 70% because they might not be synchronizing their attacks.
    Exactly the point.

    1.) The raw numbers don't stack. Because you're fighting with a partner does not mean it's the same as combining your strength, speed, internal, etc.

    2.) Your actions are not perfectly synchronised. Two people can't occupy the same space as each other. You may both attack in such a fashion that the opponent may defend in one move.

    3.) Diminishing returns of teamwork. Since you can't possibly punch and stab through your teammate, you need to work together in a cogent manner that doens't get in the way.

    Thus, fighting 5 people may only be the equivalent of fighting 1 person with their strength, speed, and internal energy doubled.

    If MRF's every action was twice as fast, he would own DYQ.

  11. #51
    Senior Member sarakoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChanceEncounter View Post
    Exactly the point.

    1.) The raw numbers don't stack. Because you're fighting with a partner does not mean it's the same as combining your strength, speed, internal, etc.

    2.) Your actions are not perfectly synchronised. Two people can't occupy the same space as each other. You may both attack in such a fashion that the opponent may defend in one move.

    3.) Diminishing returns of teamwork. Since you can't possibly punch and stab through your teammate, you need to work together in a cogent manner that doens't get in the way.

    Thus, fighting 5 people may only be the equivalent of fighting 1 person with their strength, speed, and internal energy doubled.

    If MRF's every action was twice as fast, he would own DYQ.
    This is very true. Otherwise, from the evidence in the novels, you're either a small fraction of a Great or a Great. Just because HYS could take on the QZ7Z doesn't mean he abilities match 7x that of an average QZ7Z. QCJ or MY might be at 50% of a Great, but since their side has seven people, each individual can only do so much.

    Another thing is that not all of the participants in a fight are participating equally. For example, MRF is probably the one dealing the most damage while his subordinates are sneaking an attack or two from behind or helping MRF intercept DYQ's attacks once in a while.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarakoth View Post
    This is very true. Otherwise, from the evidence in the novels, you're either a small fraction of a Great or a Great. Just because HYS could take on the QZ7Z doesn't mean he abilities match 7x that of an average QZ7Z. QCJ or MY might be at 50% of a Great, but since their side has seven people, each individual can only do so much.

    Another thing is that not all of the participants in a fight are participating equally. For example, MRF is probably the one dealing the most damage while his subordinates are sneaking an attack or two from behind or helping MRF intercept DYQ's attacks once in a while.
    This bit of wisdom needs to be remembered whenever one calculates how certain match ups between multiple opponents will work out. In formation fighting especially, there will always be members dancing around the periphery of the camera angle looking busy while their group take it in turns to fight 1 v 1 against the single opponent. In advanced formations, the multiple participants will expend a lot of energy using their qing gong to form pretty patterns, sometimes even in 3D. A house of cards is proverbially shaky and prone to collapse, but in wuxia the higher you stack the formation, the stronger it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarakoth View Post
    This is very true. Otherwise, from the evidence in the novels, you're either a small fraction of a Great or a Great. Just because HYS could take on the QZ7Z doesn't mean he abilities match 7x that of an average QZ7Z. QCJ or MY might be at 50% of a Great, but since their side has seven people, each individual can only do so much.

    Another thing is that not all of the participants in a fight are participating equally. For example, MRF is probably the one dealing the most damage while his subordinates are sneaking an attack or two from behind or helping MRF intercept DYQ's attacks once in a while.
    Well Zu Chong (GJ 2nd master) notice that even MCF not at 1/10 HYS level and We all know MCF ~ MY/QCJ so it's impossible QCJ 50% (5/10) HYS level..

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