Lau Chui Yin - the ELOC of the Cheun Jen 7 Disciples?

[Ken Cheng]

Borrowing a page from PJ's playbook here.

The Cheun Jen 7 Disciples were, as a group, prominent characters in L/ROCH, but individually, they were by no means equally represented. The most prominently represented, of course, was Yau Chui Gei...who was a major character in LOCH, ROCH, and even had a namecheck at the very beginning of HSDS. After that came Ma Yuk, who probably had the second most appearances among the 7 Disciples and is famous for having taught Gwok Jing the basics of inner power. Wong Chui 1 was featured somewhat prominently (although less than Yau and Ma) in the middle of LOCH, and he was also known for being the teacher of the traitor Chiu Tze Ging in ROCH. Gok Dai Tung became known for killing Granny Sheun. Sheun But Yee was the only woman among the seven, and she was known as the teacher of Ching Yiu Ga. Tam Chui Deun died, but his death sort of immortalized his name. He was the reason that the remaining Cheun Jen Disciples sought out that confrontation with East Heretic Wong Yerk See, after all.

That leaves Lau Chui Yin. This guy did nothing notable to distinguish him from his six colleagues during LOCH or ROCH. He was just sort of filling out that seventh space. Is Lau Chui Yin the ELOC of the Cheun Jen 7 Disciples? Is there anything special to distinguish him from the other six disciples?

[PJ]

Yes, Liu Chuxuan is the ELOC of Quanzhen. He really lives up to his mysterious reputation (he was said to be unpredictable even to his colleagues).

[jadebunny9]

If PJ ends up obsessing over this character over the next few years (though I don't think this guy is ELOC enough for PJ), we all know who to blame.

[PJ]

If PJ ends up obsessing over this character over the next few years (though I don't think this guy is ELOC enough for PJ), we all know who to blame.

I prefer Chuduan Tan.

Liu Chuxuan is indeed a Lovable Overlooked Character. However, the best ELOCs need some major quirk factor that's unique and irresistable. For example, FAST SABRE Qi Liu's fantastic death, Lan Tianhe's protagonistic luck, and Zen Master Chengguan/Dengguan's "there are two ways to write his name"ness. I haven't found anything like that for Liu Chuxuan yet.

[Ren Wo Xing]

I prefer Chuduan Tan.

Liu Chuxuan is indeed a Lovable Overlooked Character. However, the best ELOCs need some major quirk factor that's unique and irresistable. For example, FAST SABRE Qi Liu's fantastic death, Lan Tianhe's protagonistic luck, and Zen Master Chengguan/Dengguan's "there are two ways to write his name"ness. I haven't found anything like that for Liu Chuxuan yet.

I guess you proved Ken's point. This guy is so overlooked, even you can't find anything interesting about him. He really is there just to 'fill in the seventh spot'.

[pannonian]

I prefer Chuduan Tan.

Liu Chuxuan is indeed a Lovable Overlooked Character. However, the best ELOCs need some major quirk factor that's unique and irresistable. For example, FAST SABRE Qi Liu's fantastic death, Lan Tianhe's protagonistic luck, and Zen Master Chengguan/Dengguan's "there are two ways to write his name"ness. I haven't found anything like that for Liu Chuxuan yet.

Lan Tianhe also proved that characters who only appear once in a novel can also fall off cliffs and learn powerful martial arts.

For me, the only moment of Liu Chuxuan's that I remember is when 4 of the Quanzhen masters dropped that bell on Sun Bu'er to protect her from Yang Guo, and Yang Guo knocked the bell aside with his sword, thereby ensuring Sun Bu'er's death by crushing. Liu Chuxuan shut his eyes, not daring to look at the mess that was Sun Bu'er, only to hear Qiu Chuji thanking Yang Guo for sparing her.

[PJ]

Lan Tianhe also proved that characters who only appear once in a novel can also fall off cliffs and learn powerful martial arts.

That's what I meant by Lan Tianhe's protagonistic luck

[JamesG]

I guess you proved Ken's point. This guy is so overlooked, even you can't find anything interesting about him. He really is there just to 'fill in the seventh spot'.

For those who may be interested in the real man, I dug this up from a site on Taoism:

"The Life of Liu Chuxuan (1147-1203): Liu Chuxuan1 was from Donglai (in today's Shandong province), was styled Tongmiao or Daomiao, and his alternative name was "Changshengzi". He lost his father when he was very young, and he served his mother with filial piety. Liu was immune to high position and great wealth, pursuing purity and tranquility. In the 9th year of Dading he followed his master Wang Chongyang to cultivate Dao, travelling around Shandong and Henan provinces and staying there to beg in order to refine his bodily life. After the death of Sovereign Chongyang, out of filial piety, he stayed at Wang's graveyard with Wang's disciples Ma Yu, Tan Chuduan, and Qiu Chuji for three years. After that he followed Wang's will and moved to Luoyang with Tan Changzhen2. Like Tan Changzhen he wandered around and lived on begging, refining his spiritual nature on streets full of hustle and bustle. He kept corresponding with Tan as well. In the 16th year of Dading he returned to his hometown (Yexian County, Shandong) to do missionary work with great efforts. Emperor Zhangzong of the Jin dynasty invited him in private after he got the news, and treated him as a very distinguished guest. The endless stream of officials, educated men, and folks of all walks came to make friends with him, so that there were many shoes undressed on the steps outside his room from morning until evening. In the 25th year of Dading, he succeeded as the head of the Daoists of the Complete Perfection Tradition3. In 1203 he passed away as an immortal. In the 6th year of Zhiyuan, he was conferred the title 'Long-Living Perfect Man Who Brings about Salvation and Virtue'4. In history, he was called 'Perfect Man of Longevity', one of the Seven Perfect Ones of the North5.


Transmission: Liu Chuxuan founded the Suishan Sect6 of the Complete Perfection Tradition, and he had a large number of disciples, the most famous of whom included the elderly Lifeng and Yu Daoxian. Yu was famous for his ascetic cultivation of Dao, and influential at the end of the Jin Dynasty. Song Piyun, his eldest disciple, was head of the Daoists of the Suishan Sect, and was later in charge of the compilation of the Daoist Canon and of the construction of Daoist temples. Song made a great contribution to the development of the Complete Perfection Tradition."

[PJ]

For me, the only moment of Liu Chuxuan's that I remember is when 4 of the Quanzhen masters dropped that bell on Sun Bu'er to protect her from Yang Guo, and Yang Guo knocked the bell aside with his sword, thereby ensuring Sun Bu'er's death by crushing. Liu Chuxuan shut his eyes, not daring to look at the mess that was Sun Bu'er, only to hear Qiu Chuji thanking Yang Guo for sparing her.

Me too! And lest not forget it was Liu Chuxuan's idea to drop the bell on Sun Bu'er. To see Liu Chuxuan's plan backfire, and have this be the most memorable (and perhaps: the only memorable) moment of Liu Chuxuan's career span of over 2 novels, is truly one of the great moments in Jin Yong wuxia.

[Ken Cheng]

Me too! And lest not forget it was Liu Chuxuan's idea to drop the bell on Sun Bu'er. To see Liu Chuxuan's plan backfire, and have this be the most memorable (and perhaps: the only memorable) moment of Liu Chuxuan's career span of over 2 novels, is truly one of the great moments in Jin Yong wuxia.

Is it on par with the moment when Hui Juk runs over to Deun Yu, who's finally managed to succeed in compelling Wong Yu Yin to shed a tear for him, to cheerfully inform him, "The wound isn't serious! You're going to be fine!"?

[PJ]

Is it on par with the moment when Hui Juk runs over to Deun Yu, who's finally managed to succeed in compelling Wong Yu Yin shed a tear over him, to cheerfully inform him, "The wound isn't serious! You're going to be fine!"?

LOL, that's exactly the other Love-It Moment of Wuxia I had in mind! It's also an intensifyingly oustanding instance of PIMEC.

Somehow, there's something intensely remarkable about seeing Liu Chuxuan shut his eyes in fear and regret after his Famous Plan backfires!

At least Liu Chuxuan did something.