Olympic 2008 - Women's Gymnastics

[jadebunny9]

She looks like she's at least 5 years younger than me. And I'm not particularly too old-looking either.

[~Dan~]

Obviously asians look younger than they actually are. My mom actually when I was really young passed me as younger than I actually was (because their were certain perks..like under 6=free admission or something like that) ahaha. She also doesn't think I look 16 at the moment.

On a OT note: Anyone watching 69 kg Women's Weightlifting?

[Guo Xiang]

She looks like she's at least 5 years younger than me. And I'm not particularly too old-looking either.

No biggie. I'm 23 and some people still thinks I'm 14. I think I look my age though.

[warlock110]

Honestly, it's sad to believe the things that are jumping out of people's mouths these days.

maybe it's because physics no longer work on earth?

[warlock110]

And this interview is....where now? Link please?

Lol....I'm not saying I don't believe you, but you're making it really hard to believe. You talk about this vague "tape" and vague "interview" without naming any particular station or interviewer. You can't just say things out of the blue and expect it to serve as evidence.

I'm not saying much but everything is google-able, only thing you can't see is probably her birth cetificate.

[Mei24]

Just watching the Olympic the only person whom I saw that kept bring up the age on TV was Bela Karolyi, U.S. Coach. He continously brings up the age over and over. I read other articles where other coaches from other countries do not care and does not see it as a problem for them. They consider it as a problem for China. Those coaches even say some girls in other countries look either older or younger for their age.
Also, to say Karolyi even state that China is one of the country that can change documents. Again he is the only one who is making a big deal. He even brought the whole thing about looking at their teeth. That some of the girls still have baby teeth. I'm 27 and I have small teeth for my age.

They said it on TV that the Chinese train at a lot younger age than American. So watching the performance of course there will be some advantage. At the same time they are competiting in their home country, which the pressure is on them. A coach in Italy even said that she does not want the Olympic to be done there due to the pressure it will put on her team.

Watching the performance wise China did have some small and one major mistake. But U.S. team leader made 2 major mistakes that cost them. So they need to look at that factor too. Both teams made mistakes, but who made more major mistakes?

[jadebunny9]

The US made more mistakes that really cost them the gold medal.

But what does that have to do with the age issue?

[Tei]

Claiming and stating as fact that the girls are underage based mainly on personal perceptions of how they 'look' or 'act' is just hogswash. I don't care how many Chinese people you've come in contact with, it's still a completely subjective pursuit that doesn't take into accountthe geographical diversity of China AND that under the Chinese system, recruits are taken at early ages BASED ON their physical advantages and genetics. Of course they would be smaller than other countries who don't do this kind of calculated recruiting and training.

And to operate without proof, no matter how justified you think you are, is not how the real world works. Chinese documentation has always been muddled; people, particularly from rural areas, are often registered as older OR younger than they appear. The Chinese media isn't always the most reliable either, and that and the US Coach's claims (who isn't objective at all, has ulterior motives, and of course would cling onto anything to make the other team look bad in a deathgrip) are the only thigns to base this controversy on.

Maybe this will set a precedent for future competitions or at least bring up the age limit to discussion. But for this specific competition, I say it's a small matter. The US made enough mistakes to put themselves out of hte running for gold. If you want to try to balance US's mistakes against if the benefits of younger gymnasts, if we take a large step and assume that they are in fact underaged, can be quantified to make China take the lead, you're free to. But it's ridiculous, and all you can do is make quack claims and be a sore loser.

Champions are champions, and while both teams were stellar, the Chinese upped their game; they rallied and did not falter after a few mistakes early on. The US did, and especially at a part when it counted the most. Age has no relation with poise in high pressure situations, particularly in this case since, logically, 1) this is one area where experience and not age would be a boon, and should've benefited the US team...but they fell apart, and also because the 2) Chinese were weaker in their earlier routines which should in fact make them more nervous and prone to error...but they rallied. To try to devalue the effort of these girls is meanspirited, since the medal was well-deserved.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Obviously asians look younger than they actually are. My mom actually when I was really young passed me as younger than I actually was (because their were certain perks..like under 6=free admission or something like that) ahaha. She also doesn't think I look 16 at the moment.

On a OT note: Anyone watching 69 kg Women's Weightlifting?

Dude, that only works if you don't know a lot of Asians.

Claiming and stating as fact that the girls are underage based mainly on personal perceptions of how they 'look' or 'act' is just hogswash. I don't care how many Chinese people you've come in contact with, it's still a completely subjective pursuit that doesn't take into accountthe geographical diversity of China AND that under the Chinese system, recruits are taken at early ages BASED ON their physical advantages and genetics. Of course they would be smaller than other countries who don't do this kind of calculated recruiting and training.

And to operate without proof, no matter how justified you think you are, is not how the real world works. Chinese documentation has always been muddled; people, particularly from rural areas, are often registered as older OR younger than they appear. The Chinese media isn't always the most reliable either, and that and the US Coach's claims (who isn't objective at all, has ulterior motives, and of course would cling onto anything to make the other team look bad in a deathgrip) are the only thigns to base this controversy on.

Did I say it was a 'big' matter? Was I rooting for the US team? In fact, I think that it's all the more impressive that a bunch of 14-year olds kicked so much ***, and as bunny can attest, I wasn't exactly crying when the US team lost. But with that being said, there is no way in hell all of those girls are sixteen.

Frankly, I don't give a crap about the US coach's claims. I do give a crap about the rest of the wealth of circumstantial evidence; Chinese newspapers, a government Chinese sports website, and the national director of sports all referred to He Kexin as being 14. And, by my own eyes and ears, that's how old she (and a few of the others) look, at most.

Oh, and you can stop setting up strawman arguments as well. No one (here at least) is diminishing the Chinese victory (which many of us were rooting for) by saying the girls are fourteen. That doesn't change the fact that they probably are.

No one is 'operating' without proof, unless you consider posting our opinions here to be 'operating'. It is, by it's nature, IMPOSSIBLE to provide proof of whether or not a government falsified their ages, because the ONLY types of legal proof and verification are issued BY the government. That's why the girls haven't been expelled. But there is MORE than enough circumstantial evidence for others to suspect the ages of the girls in question and to post our opinions about it. And if you want to 'disallow' others from posting their opinions just because there is no hard 'proof' about it, then you can go screw yourself.

[999roses]

Lmao, if you guys think you're all so mighty and great, why don't you bring it up with the IOC then? It's freaking hilarious how confident and cocky some people think they are.

Sure, go ahead and post your un-defended claims. No one is stopping you. Go and post more about how you want to jump off the Eiffle Tower or anything else for all I care. But you can't stop other people from calling you whiners who can't prove jack either. There's a good Chinese idiom for it ---gou ji tiao qiang.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Lmao, if you guys think you're all so mighty and great, why don't you bring it up with the IOC then? It's freaking hilarious how confident and cocky some people think they are.

Sure, go ahead and post your un-defended claims. No one is stopping you. Go and post more about how you want to jump off the Eiffle Tower or anything else for all I care. But you can't stop other people from calling you whiners who can't prove jack either. There's a good Chinese idiom for it ---gou ji tiao qiang.

Does that include the national sports director of China? Cuz he kinda agrees with us, you know, that the girl is 14. I point out that multiple Chinese sources, including the national sports director of China, have indicated that the girl is 14. How does that make me a whiner? How does that make me so mighty and great?

Stop being such an insecure little baby that jumps at every single perceived slight or slant. Every single piece of circumstantial evidence points to these girls not being 16. The only piece against it is the easily falsifiable passport.

[warlock110]

Lmao, if you guys think you're all so mighty and great, why don't you bring it up with the IOC then? It's freaking hilarious how confident and cocky some people think they are.

Sure, go ahead and post your un-defended claims. No one is stopping you. Go and post more about how you want to jump off the Eiffle Tower or anything else for all I care. But you can't stop other people from calling you whiners who can't prove jack either. There's a good Chinese idiom for it ---gou ji tiao qiang.

YES, we have to bring every forum discussion to the IOC because everything else is jack shit.

On the side news, this dude is probably over 16
http://withleather.uproxx.com/post.phtml?pk=6620

[999roses]

Gou ji Tiao Qiang is reserved for people who say they would rather cut off anatomical parts if the girls are actually 16 years old. People who can't make fair arguments and pretty much make stupid baseless comments that serve nothing to the cause. At least warlock has been defending himself all along and hasn't said anything as rash as that.

The point is that you can't do jack about it. So if you all wanna keep whining, be my guest.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Gou ji Tiao Qiang is reserved for people who say they would rather cut off anatomical parts if the girls are actually 16 years old. People who can't make fair arguments and pretty much make stupid baseless comments that serve nothing to the cause. At least warlock has been defending himself all along and hasn't said anything as rash as that.

The point is that you can't do jack about it. So if you all wanna keep whining, be my guest.

LOL!!!! So you feel that talking about something which you can't do jack about means you are whining, and that it is pointless? Yeah, let's delete the entire open debate forum then, and never talk about anything controversial again, because let's face it, we 'can't do jack about it', right?

Oh, and for the record, I never said I would cut my dick off; I said that if the girls were 16, then I am a eunuch; as I am obviously not a eunuch, that is meant to imply how certain I am that the girls aren't 16. Obviously, your English comprehension is as deficient as your logic comprehension and a certain quotient. And 'gou ji tiao qiang', lit. that a desperate dog will jump over a wall, is totally inapplicable and inappropriate here, which goes to show that your Chinese comprehension is equally deficient.

PS: The national sports director of China agrees with me that the girl is 14, something which you repeatedly skip over/ignore. You're acting as bad as the western media which you claim to so dislike, and being every bit as deceitful and narrow-mindedly insulting towards others. And I find it hugely amusing that you've switched from "you have no evidence" to "you can't do anything about it."

[MrPhotastic]

I find Beli Karolyi and his wife a little annoying pressing the issue regarding the age of the Chinese gymnast. It's embarassing if you ask me just take this with a grain of salt and show some class and sportsmanship. Only the Karolyis are making noise about this, nobody else. Just let the girls enjoy their medals.

Rose: Chill out girl. You getting too worked up.... You are not seeing the big picture all RWX is saying is there are circumstantial evidence to prove the claim that some of those girls are in fact 14. And you're saying give me prove. etc etc. That's his proof right there.

[bellamia]

*whoah* I feel like I'm in a war zone with all the insults flying around.

[Ren Wo Xing]

I find Beli Karolyi and his wife a little annoying pressing the issue regarding the age of the Chinese gymnast. It's embarassing if you ask me just take this with a grain of salt and show some class and sportsmanship. Only the Karolyis are making noise about this, nobody else. Just let the girls enjoy their medals.

Rose: Chill out girl. You getting to worked up.... You are not seeing the big picture all RWX is saying is there are circumstantial evidence to prove the claim that some of those girls are in fact 14. And you're saying give me prove. etc etc. That's his proof right there.

See, personally speaking, I don't even really care what age those girls are, because I don't see how it has any bearing on their stellar performance at the finals, or the gold medal which they so richly deserved.

Unfortunately, rose, like the (attack) dog which she describes others as being, wants to try and bite people who so much as express their opinion that the girls are probably younger than as billed, even if those people do not express that opinion in a negative way that denigrates or casts doubt on the validity or ability of the girls in question.

[Ren Ying Ying]

Take He Kexin, for example. The Chengdu sports bureau listed her as being born in 1994, and the China Daily wrote that she's 14, and the national director of sports referred to her as being 13 in 2007. She has neither the face, the body, nor the voice of any 16 year old Chinese girl that I've ever met. And against all that, we have...a passport, which is provided and verified by the very entity which is suspected of falsifying her age.

regardless of whether He is actually 14 or 16,
so waht was that about being a "tai jian" if they were not much older than 12?

frankly, i don't care if they're really 14, 16, or 10, but frankly, people should stop trying to be (as rosie call them) "age psychics"

[Ren Wo Xing]

regardless of whether He is actually 14 or 16,
so waht was that about being a "tai jian" if they were not much older than 12?

Refer to the below quote. Yes, I said 'much older than twelve' instead of 'sixteen'. That's rhetorical quibbling.

Oh, and for the record, I never said I would cut my dick off; I said that if the girls were 16, then I am a eunuch; as I am obviously not a eunuch, that is meant to imply how certain I am that the girls aren't 16.

frankly, i don't care if they're really 14, 16, or 10, but frankly, people should stop trying to be (as rosie call them) "age psychics"

By age psychics, I assume you mean, people who comment on how old others appear to be after seeing them, or hearing their age based on the director of the national sports bureau in China? SHOCKING! Who could do such a horrible, senseless thing!? There's no logic to it at all!

[warlock110]

I find Beli Karolyi and his wife a little annoying pressing the issue regarding the age of the Chinese gymnast. It's embarassing if you ask me just take this with a grain of salt and show some class and sportsmanship. Only the Karolyis are making noise about this, nobody else. Just let the girls enjoy their medals.

Rose: Chill out girl. You getting too worked up.... You are not seeing the big picture all RWX is saying is there are circumstantial evidence to prove the claim that some of those girls are in fact 14. And you're saying give me prove. etc etc. That's his proof right there.

Well, like most people say, it doesn't hurt till it hit you in the face. a few years ago no one care because the chinese just wasn't gold medal contention.

Same with me, if I keep getting stuff for free I don't value them, once they're gone I'm paying much more attention to what's "missing" lol.