Folding fans as weapons - are they *always* ironclad?

[Ken Cheng]

A number of wuxia characters use the folding fan as a melee weapon. For example, Gong Nam Freak # 2 Chu Chung used one, and his fan was known to be ironclad.

Were these battle fans *always* ironclad, however? It was so specified for Chu Chung's fan, but what about the fans used by Au Yeung Hak, Fok Do, and a host of other characters? I can't imagine that an average, paper and wood fan would survive much combat against swords, sabres, spears, etc.

[flamer]

I guess if a person's internal is strong enough, anything can be used as a powerful weopon. ZWJ did use a wooden sword against the HEAVENLY SWORD. So yea.

For not-so-Great fighters, iron-clad is possibly the norm.

[Ken Cheng]

I guess if a person's internal is strong enough, anything can be used as a powerful weopon. ZWJ did use a wooden sword against the HEAVENLY SWORD. So yea.

Of course, the two blades never came into contact with one another...otherwise, Cheung Mo Gei would have lost *at least* his wooden weapon.

The fan-wielding guys typically have to cross their weapons with their opponents', however.

[flamer]

I also remember reading in HSDS that ZWJ holding a sword enables the sword to be much stronger because of 9 Yang flowing in it. This allowed ZWJ to slice off an arm off 8 Armed Swordsman.

Just pointing out that items are a lot stronger when enforced with internal. Quite possibly even able to match actual weapons.

[Ken Cheng]

I also remember reading in HSDS that ZWJ holding a sword enables the sword to be much stronger because of 9 Yang flowing in it.

Just pointing out that items are a lot stronger when enforced with internal. Quite possibly even able to match actual weapons.

While that phenomenon is known in wuxia, Cheung Mo Gei was wise enough to *not* test it by pitting a wooden blade directly against the Heaven Sword. The differential between the materials of the two blades was probably too much for even his inner power to compensate.

Of course, all that doesn't resolve the matter of those fans...

[flamer]

The difference between the wooden sword and Heavely Sword should be too big. But...

if say HYS holds a normal fan, I'm almost 100% sure he can defeat say Huo Du.

[Exodus]

The difference between the wooden sword and Heavely Sword should be too big. But...

if say HYS holds a normal fan, I'm almost 100% sure he can defeat say Huo Du.

HYS can defeat Huo Du using a plastic fan

[Ken Cheng]

if say HYS holds a normal fan, I'm almost 100% sure he can defeat say Huo Du.

Granted, yeah...but since guys such as Chu Chung, Au Yeung Hak, and Fok Do were mid-levelers, they were going to win some fights and lose others. In all three cases, however, we never hear about these guys coming back with broken fans. That being the case, is it their skill, or the material in their fans (for Chu Chung, we already know the answer)?

[ChanceEncounter]

if say HYS holds a normal fan, I'm almost 100% sure he can defeat say Huo Du.

Really not much of an argument. HYS can beat Huo Du with a straw or pixie stick. He's just better than him.

This is ultimately completely different because the heaven sword is not a typical weapon.

[Ken Cheng]

Here's something to chew on for fan-strength as well:

During his first encounter with Gwok Jing, Fok Do attacked Gwok with his fan. Gwok Jing caught Fok Do's fan in his hand, held it in his grip, and transmitted his inner power through the fan. Fok Do was in great agony, but the fan did not break in Gwok Jing's grasp despite the tremendous inner power he was transmitting through it.

Would a regular fan have survived that sort of treatment?

[Exodus]

Here's something to chew on for fan-strength as well:

During his first encounter with Gwok Jing, Fok Do attacked Gwok with his fan. Gwok Jing caught Fok Do's fan in his hand, held it in his grip, and transmitted his inner power through the fan. Fok Do was in great agony, but the fan did not break in Gwok Jing's grasp despite the tremendous inner power he was transmitting through it.

Would a regular fan have survived that sort of treatment?

guess GJ wasn't trying to break it. It's not like the fan is going to start burning because of the internal transmitting through it like electricity

think about YG using a jade pin to kill NMX

[flamer]

Really not much of an argument. HYS can beat Huo Du with a straw or pixie stick. He's just better than him.

This is ultimately completely different because the heaven sword is not a typical weapon.

Thats why I suggested that the actual ability of the person dictates if that person requires "iron-cladness",

[flamer]

Yea we don't see that paper burn when Du Monk was transmitting internal to Wei YiXiao either.

[pannonian]

Here's something to chew on for fan-strength as well:

During his first encounter with Gwok Jing, Fok Do attacked Gwok with his fan. Gwok Jing caught Fok Do's fan in his hand, held it in his grip, and transmitted his inner power through the fan. Fok Do was in great agony, but the fan did not break in Gwok Jing's grasp despite the tremendous inner power he was transmitting through it.

Would a regular fan have survived that sort of treatment?

A regular fan would probably distort. The heavy iron sword was remarkable not just for its capcity to channel power, but also for not breaking despite the amount of internal channelled into it and the forces acting on it when it's swung - a normal sword would have broken when Yang Guo swung it around as he did the heavy sword. In Yang Guo's understanding of the wooden sword, he trained to use the wooden sword as he used the heavy sword, both in blade speed as when he twirled the sword around to keep the snow from touching him, and in blade power as when he cut down a tree with the sword (but the wooden sword broke in the process). Something flimsy, although not quite so flimsy as paper, could probably survive having qi channelled into it, but it may not survive the stresses of battle.

Ouyang Ke had an iron-spined fan. When Hong Qigong took his fan during the Li Sheng confrontation, he crumpled it in his hands as if it were a paper fan, terrifying Ouyang Ke with his power.

[ChanceEncounter]

Thats why I suggested that the actual ability of the person dictates if that person requires "iron-cladness",

I suppose. But beating a typical fan (especially with the internal of a great behind it) with even a steel fan does not produce an analogous response to hacking at a wooden sword with the heaven sword (one of the most formidable weapons in Jin Yong). There should have been little doubt that ZWJ would have won, it was just weather or not his sword could have possibly stood up to the heaven sword.

The analogy unfortunately isn't ironclad.

[flamer]

Yes Ken C already suggested that the difference between Heavenly Sword and wooden sword is too much for ZWJ's internal.

[sarakoth]

Fan wielders often use fans to shield themselves from projectiles. I don't see paper fans being able to do that.

[the.raven]

lin ping zhi also uses a fan and theres no ndication that its made of metal. but a needle is hidden in his fan.

[AnhHung]

What about Gulong characters? Chor Leu Heung (spelling ?) uses a fan, doesnt he? Cant imagen it to be ironclads.
Re the bit about GJ, the fan and FD. GJ has skill were he transfer energy through objects. The object in contact with him is not harmed, but the next object would feel full power of his internal. He used in Loch to push off Begger clan members without harming them. But when they landed on Iron Palm clan members, the Iron Clan members suffers internal injury.

[CC]

I would say wooden/paper fans are possible but they would be as rare as characters using a wooden sword.