I knew there was no way in hell.....

[the.raven]

if thats true, then 13 year old chinese is better than 16 year old American, and they are complaining? boo hoo.

[Guo Xiang]

if thats true, then 13 year old chinese is better than 16 year old American, and they are complaining? boo hoo.

Well, they are saying that younger gymnasts have the advantage because they are lighter, and gymnasts tend to reach their peak at young ages.

[Canuck21]

Yes, the reason why this is becoming so big is because the US team lost. I really hope they don't find anything though because the Chinese girls worked hard for their medal, even if they might not have been qualified to compete age-wise.

Have to agree with you on this. As long as the girl won fair and square, age really doesn't matter to me... It is not the case that underage girls have any unfair advantage...

That's bull. What's the point of having rules if individuals and federations are not following them? Worked hard or not, if you're not qualified, you're not qualified. And please people, the Americans are not the only one questioning the age of the Chinese, many other countries are also doubting.

[ChanceEncounter]

That's bull. What's the point of having rules if individuals and federations are not following them? Worked hard or not, if you're not qualified, you're not qualified. And please people, the Americans are not the only one questioning the age of the Chinese, many other countries are also doubting.

Exactly.

As I said, there are quite a few advantages to being smaller and younger. But even if they are only marginal, the Chinese team still would be breaking the rules when all the other teams are following them, rendering them an unfair advantage.

[Ren Wo Xing]

There's no need to worry about the medals being stripped. From a legal standpoint, the age of a person is determined by passport and by government records, all of which will support the government line. Even if proof was found that the records were altered, the government can claim that they were only altered because the original records were incorrect, and that they were merely 'fixing' them. So for those of you who are rooting for that, or for those of you who are worried about that, no need to think about it. It won't happen. There is, quite literally, zero way that anyone can definitively prove that any competitor in any country is underage, even if the amount of suspicious circumstantial evidence is completely overwhelming.

Which, incidentally, is why people who claim that there shouldn't be news reports or posts about such suspicions "unless there is solid, 100% proof" really are biased and, dare I say, full of 'it'.

[pandamao]

There's no need to worry about the medals being stripped. From a legal standpoint, the age of a person is determined by passport and by government records, all of which will support the government line. Even if proof was found that the records were altered, the government can claim that they were only altered because the original records were incorrect, and that they were merely 'fixing' them. So for those of you who are rooting for that, or for those of you who are worried about that, no need to think about it. It won't happen. There is, quite literally, zero way that anyone can definitively prove that any competitor in any country is underage, even if the amount of suspicious circumstantial evidence is completely overwhelming.

Which, incidentally, is why people who claim that there shouldn't be news reports or posts about such suspicions "unless there is solid, 100% proof" really are biased and, dare I say, full of 'it'.

If forensic studies can determine a decayed body on its age range, I'm sure the same can be done to these dolls jumping and running around. Those original documents, if were altered, is probably the best defense for the Americans, and other countries.

Next Olympics, it's time to lift the age restriction. I don't see a purpose for the age restriction if people are going to question whether they are old enough.

[999roses]

News reports/posts about suspisions on age and news reports claiming that the girls are 100% or "for sure" < 16 years of age are completely different things.

Isn't the IOC taking measures for next round? I thought they were going to issue those age certificates or badges....but I'm not exactly sure how they will work because the most original info on age still comes from their country of origin (which people claim in this round are responsible for the supposed forgeries). The only way is either to take off the age limit or do forensic-type checks on all girls they find looking "suspiciously underage".

[Ren Wo Xing]

If forensic studies can determine a decayed body on its age range, I'm sure the same can be done to these dolls jumping and running around. Those original documents, if were altered, is probably the best defense for the Americans, and other countries.

To my understanding, even forensics can only provide, as you said, a 'range' at best, due to a great degree of variance in many aspects; one can always argue that the girls simply fell outside of the range. Moreover, who is qualified to order that the girls be produced and undergo a forensic examination? The IOC? I don't believe there's anything written in the rules regarding that. It can make a special request, I suppose, but unless it's absolutely willing to get into a horrifically ugly battle with China over it, it's not going to happen.

As far as the age verification goes, the IOC currently operates solely on the basis of the passport and government statements; it's the equivalent of an 'honor system', basically. And a major part of an 'honor system' is that it relies on moral suasion, rather than coercion, to achieve compliance...and the corresponding part is that when moral suasion fails, then the system fails as well. Regardless of whether or not the girls are underage, there's pretty much zero chance the girls will be stripped. That's why I'm not really concerned about that at all.

Next Olympics, it's time to lift the age restriction. I don't see a purpose for the age restriction if people are going to question whether they are old enough.

I think the age restriction only applies for gymnastics to begin with, right? I agree, I see no reason why it can't be removed.

[Ren Ying Ying]

I think the age restriction only applies for gymnastics to begin with, right? I agree, I see no reason why it can't be removed.

they were afraid it's unhealthy for the girls to be doing such moves at such young ages or they were being over trained...though seriously, stopping them from competing isn't going to stop them from training.

[Ren Wo Xing]

they were afraid it's unhealthy for the girls to be doing such moves at such young ages or they were being over trained...though seriously, stopping them from competing isn't going to stop them from training.

If that's true, that's extremely stupid, for precisely the reason you put above. I'm pretty sure the training itself is much more 'unhealthy' than the few minutes of performing that the Olympics represents.

[999roses]

There was a documentary about picking out gymnasts that CCTV ran. They talked about how they knew the age limit was 16, which was why they started to pick the gymnasts for the 08 games since 2003.

Anyway, I know people are going to be like "Omg, it's made by CCTV, it must be fake!" ANYWAY, for those who are interested, look around 9 minutes, you can see Jiang Yu Yuan when she's about 12 years old (well she said that in the video and this was in 2003).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk8ZwHd2GA8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSbn0...eature=related (actually this one is better at beginning)

On a side note, there's an interesting video about their personalities and interviews:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Koc5VovZb50

Yang Yi lin seems to be a much more shy person....I love how the media makes her out to be this person who got "mind controlled" by the CCP, and you have people online now raving about how sorry they feel for her. She seems okay to me, just a bit timid. Jiang Yu Yuan on the other hand, seems much more outgoing.

[Guo Xiang]

There was a documentary about picking out gymnasts that CCTV ran. They talked about how they knew the age limit was 16, which was why they started to pick the gymnasts for the 08 games since 2003.

Anyway, I know people are going to be like "Omg, it's made by CCTV, it must be fake!" ANYWAY, for those who are interested, look around 9 minutes, you can see Jiang Yu Yuan when she's about 12 years old (well she said that in the video and this was in 2003).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk8ZwHd2GA8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSbn0...eature=related (actually this one is better at beginning)

On a side note, there's an interesting video about their personalities and interviews:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Koc5VovZb50

Yang Yi lin seems to be a much more shy person....I love how the media makes her out to be this person who got "mind controlled" by the CCP, and you have people online now raving about how sorry they feel for her. She seems okay to me, just a bit timid. Jiang Yu Yuan on the other hand, seems much more outgoing.

You got their personalities right, I'd think.

There's this interview with Jiang Yuyuan that was about 7 minutes long... but I can't find it on youtube anymore. Shame.