LUK SIU FUNG ELOCs

[Ken Cheng]

PJ has sort of cornered the market on Jin Yong's ELOCs, but in the world of Gu Long's LUK SIU FUNG, there are a number of ELOCs worth consideration and discussion.

Two for consideration for tonight:

Chui 1 Dung: this was the guy who (apparently) chased Seung Gwoon Fei Yin into Fa Mun Lau's house, setting up Seung Gwoon and Fa's first meeting. Fa Mun Lau easily caught Chui 1 Dung's sabre using Luk Siu Fung's Ling Sai 1 Finger Technique. When Seung Gwoon Fei Yin remarked that Fa's finger technique was excellent, Fa modestly deflected that it was actually Chui's whose sabre technique was poor. Seung Gwoon demurred, saying that Chui's sabre arts were actually quite formidable. Well, how good/poor were Chui 1 Dung's martial arts? Absolutely, he was inferior to the likes of Fa Mun Lau, but Fa was a martial arts elite of his generation.

Hung To: this was the guy whom Sai Mun Chui Sheut killed during the latter's debut in LUK SIU FUNG. He was known as the "Lightning Sabre," and killed Chiu Gong, who was himself known as "One Sabre Dominates the 9 Provinces" (which was why Sai Mun Chui Sheut killed Hung). Sai Mun Chui Sheut easily killed Hung, naturally, but as in Chui 1 Dung's case with Fa Mun Lau, that's not necessarily a reflection of Hung's skill. Fa and Sai Mun represented extreme opposition, but were Chui or Hung actually somewhat formidable martial artists?

[Ian Liew]

Sorry to necro this - but it came up under the "Similar Threads" section!

I always thought that Qu Yidong was merely a henchman under the employ of Shangguan Feiyan and Huo You, and so probably wasn't as powerful as Shangguan Feiyan made him out to be. Hua was supposed to easily rescue her as part of her plan.

Hong Tao seemed to be quite a powerful man, though. Zhao Gang's name was famous in wulin, and although it was mainly for his virtue and trustworthiness, for Ximen Chuixue to feel so passionate about him he must have had some ability, or at least potential. In the novels, we never see Ximen passionate about anything other than martial arts (there was a time when he persecuted people who betrayed trust in Phantom Mansion, but that was staged and not his real agenda). We can see when Su Shaoying insists on fighting him he tries to discourage him, citing that he had great potential and that he should come back in 10 years time. He also laments that there are fewer and fewer real swordsmen in wulin these days - for him to take notice of Zhao Gang, Zhao must have had some accomplishment in his art. Hong also managed to kill him (which would mean he was even better) and get away without wulin chasing after him. If a really good man was killed, and everyone knew who did it, you'd expect wulin to go after him in retaliation (even if he beat Zhao in a fair duel, others would duel him in return) but no one did. When Ximen cornered him he didn't even have any idea why until Ximen told him. The novel also states that his sabre skill only had one small flaw, which was enough for Ximen. My guess is Hong was pretty powerful - possibly comparable with the three Yings of Ermei, although that's just speculation. He certainly wasn't just a simple kelefe.

[Ken Cheng]

Interesting thoughts, Ian, and coincidentally, I discussed LUK SIU FUNG and specifically, Sai Mun Chui Sheut with a student of mine who is not familiar with wuxia. He was quite fascinated by Sai Mun Chui Sheut and Yip Goo Sing, and quite amazed when I described for him not only SMCS's duel against YGS (and the circumstances around it), but also SMCS's duel with Dook Goo 1 Hok.

[tape]

Parrot of Echo Valley always one of my favorites since he never actually appeared.

[minutemanwayne]

I dont remember the Parrot being mentioned in Lu Xiaofeng but he was a frightening character in TSATE, possessing top lightness kungfu

[tape]

Oh right he never appeared, kind of forgot the title of this thread.

[BlackRaven]

Interesting thoughts, Ian, and coincidentally, I discussed LUK SIU FUNG and specifically, Sai Mun Chui Sheut with a student of mine who is not familiar with wuxia. He was quite fascinated by Sai Mun Chui Sheut and Yip Goo Sing, and quite amazed when I described for him not only SMCS's duel against YGS (and the circumstances around it), but also SMCS's duel with Dook Goo 1 Hok.

I thought LXF book 1 oozed with atmosphere and was highly immersive due to characters like Dugu Yihe. He was originally an expert saber user and when he joined Emei he mastered their sword art as well. He then combined everything into a new fighting style with 49 moves that could be equally as effective with either sword or saber. He taught it to the Emei school, and it gave flavor to his 7 students when one of them fought Hua Manlou and Ximen Chuxue. Dugu Yihe's fight with Huo TianQing and Ximen was also very well written.

I usually have a bad memory but I still remember all these details vividly after all these years because they left a strong impression on me.

[Ken Cheng]

Ian, would you say that Hung Tao was superior or inferior to the likes of Siu Chou Yu, Lau Yu Hun, and Dook Goo Fong?

[Ian Liew]

Ian, would you say that Hung Tao was superior or inferior to the likes of Siu Chou Yu, Lau Yu Hun, and Dook Goo Fong?

I can't really remember the details of those three, but if I stand by my original comparison of Hong Tao with the three Yings, then Hong Tao would probably be as powerful as Su Shaoying. I can't remember how it was in the novel, but in the serials Yan Tieshan accorded Su Shaoying a lot of respect. Sure, most of it was due to Dugu Yihe being his teacher, but when Ximen killed Su Shaoying it looked like a lot of fight went out of Yan Tieshan, and like Ximen (I think) said, he might not have beaten Yan easily had Yan not been so afraid of dying at his hands. In that respect I cannot imagine the deaths of Liu Yuhen, Xiao Qiuyu and Dugu Fang having the same impact on their employer (although of course, their employers, being the masterminds behind the plot, probably wouldn't panic that easily anyway). All three were just expendable pawns (and Liu's employer actively got him to commit suicide simply because he was no longer of any use), but I can't exactly remember the details of their accomplishments, or how they fared in battle against anyone (other than Liu Yuhen, and he didn't have much success against Lu Xiaofeng). I can't even remember who killed Xiao and Dugu - was it Liu himself?

Using Su Shaoying as a benchmark I'd say that Hong Tao was superior to those three lackeys.

[Ken Cheng]

I can't really remember the details of those three, but if I stand by my original comparison of Hong Tao with the three Yings, then Hong Tao would probably be as powerful as Su Shaoying. I can't remember how it was in the novel, but in the serials Yan Tieshan accorded Su Shaoying a lot of respect. Sure, most of it was due to Dugu Yihe being his teacher, but when Ximen killed Su Shaoying it looked like a lot of fight went out of Yan Tieshan, and like Ximen (I think) said, he might not have beaten Yan easily had Yan not been so afraid of dying at his hands. In that respect I cannot imagine the deaths of Liu Yuhen, Xiao Qiuyu and Dugu Fang having the same impact on their employer (although of course, their employers, being the masterminds behind the plot, probably wouldn't panic that easily anyway). All three were just expendable pawns (and Liu's employer actively got him to commit suicide simply because he was no longer of any use), but I can't exactly remember the details of their accomplishments, or how they fared in battle against anyone (other than Liu Yuhen, and he didn't have much success against Lu Xiaofeng). I can't even remember who killed Xiao and Dugu - was it Liu himself?

Using Su Shaoying as a benchmark I'd say that Hong Tao was superior to those three lackeys.

Here are their battle records:

Lau Yu Hun fairly easily defeated Iron Faced Judge from the Green Shirts Pavilion.

Siu Chou Yu also easily crippled the hands of Soul Hooker.

HOWEVER...

Fa Mun Lau later easily defeated both Siu Chou Yu and Dook Goo Fong together.

Siu Chou Yu was murdered; Luk Siu Fung and Fa Mun Lau believed it was Soul Hooker who did it, but that seems unlikely.

Dook Goo Fong was also murdered...likely by Seung Gwoon Fei Yin perhaps with Lau Yu Hun's help.

Luk Siu Fung defeated Lau Yu Hun easily.