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Thread: How much did patriotic ideals and goals mean to Yeung Gor?

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default How much did patriotic ideals and goals mean to Yeung Gor?

    Obviously, patriotic ideals and goals didn't become the focus of Yeung Gor's life as they did for Gwok Jing, and they didn't matter to him as much as Little Dragon Girl did, but it wouldn't be fair or accurate to say that he didn't care at all. He actually cared about his countrymen quite a bit, and performed significant heroic services on their behalf.

    So in terms of overall importance in his priorities, how much did patriotic ideals and goals matter to Yeung Gor?

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    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    I think its:

    1) XLN
    2-3) Dead family
    2-3) Personal ego/martial arts
    4) Guo family
    5) Friends
    6) Ancient Tomb Sect/ COUNTRY.

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    Senior Member SkyWalker's Avatar
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    YG always felt like the entire world owed him something so he could care less about them. It was only after the disappearance of XLN and learning the truth about his dad that he decided to redeem his family's name and contribute to society while he waited for his reunion w/ his wife. After he found XLN, it's off to the sunset again. Granted, he killed the mongol king but he was only there to save GX and since he's already there, he might as well help. But afterwards, he just didn't give a care anymore. He's a caring person, but he's just not a patriotic like GJ/XF and we can't expect everyone to be patriotic like those two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
    YG always felt like the entire world owed him something so he could care less about them. It was only after the disappearance of XLN and learning the truth about his dad that he decided to redeem his family's name and contribute to society while he waited for his reunion w/ his wife. After he found XLN, it's off to the sunset again. Granted, he killed the mongol king but he was only there to save GX and since he's already there, he might as well help. But afterwards, he just didn't give a care anymore. He's a caring person, but he's just not a patriotic like GJ/XF and we can't expect everyone to be patriotic like those two.
    Yang Guo didjn't learn the truth about his dad until after the 16 years. The turning point came when Guo Jing took him on a walk and talked about his aspirations for him, and when he saw Guo Jing singlehandedly holding back the Mongols while he covered for the fleeing peasants, refusing to retreat until every last peasant was inside the walls. Then came the visit to the Mongol camp, where Yang Guo felt his own dad could not have been kinder to him than his Uncle Guo had been. The final step was Guo Jing's and Huang Rong's debate over who should face Jinlun Guoshi, with the question being, what was more important, family or country. After this, Yang Guo no longer felt the world was unfair to him, but he owed the country his life.

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    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    YG did as much patriotic service as GJ to the Sung dynasty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    I think they're probably at the same level as or one level below Ah Qing, which is about the level of a 2nd or 3rd generation Quan Zhen disciple.
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    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
    YG did as much patriotic service as GJ to the Sung dynasty.
    No way... Guo Jing and Huang Rong gave their lives in defense of Song. Not to mention the decades they defended Xiang Yang. GJ was ready to give up Guo Xiang's life in defense of the city.

    Yang Guo stopped caring after her reunited with XLN.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
    YG did as much patriotic service as GJ to the Sung dynasty.

    Han Solo
    Yang Guo was a hero who led the Song army to decisive victory over the Mongols, ensuring peace for a prolonged period after. Guo Jing and Huang Rong were heroes who dedicated their entire lives to defending Song against the Mongols. Yang Guo's heroism ranks way above the likes of Hong Qigong, perhaps even putting him on a plane with Wang Chongyang, who put in more effort but with less success against the Jin. The only reasonable comparison with Guo Jing and Huang Rong is with Yue Fei.

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    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    So in terms of overall importance in his priorities, how much did patriotic ideals and goals matter to Yeung Gor
    Even when he believed that GJ was reposible for his fathers death he was conciously aware that GJ played a huge role in preventing China from being crushed by the mongols. Several times when he thought of killing GJ the suffering of the common people weighed heavily on his conscience. Although GJ and YG did not spend much time together, GJ was able to deeply instill the idea of "serving the people and country is a hero's imperative" into YG.


    Futhermore, we only hear a glimpse of what YG did during the 10+ years in the inn and many of his deeds were done for the country or for the people. Judging by what we did hear, I do believe that YG spent the ten+ years helping people and serving the country. The fact that several times he was willing to sacrafice his own life as well as XLN's life for the betterment of the people should be proof enough.

    So yeah. IMO patriotism did rank highly on YG's list. I think the main reason that YG was viewed as unpatriotic is mainly because he did not stand guard at XY and become GJ's successor. However, YG did serve his country the people in his own way.
    wow..04-08....4 years just like that..time flies..

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    Senior Member S Beaver's Avatar
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    Patriotism, I don't know. In fact, Guo Jing was not necessarily very "patriotic".

    The two of them cared more for the good and safety of the common people rather than for political borders.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S Beaver View Post
    Patriotism, I don't know. In fact, Guo Jing was not necessarily very "patriotic".

    The two of them cared more for the good and safety of the common people rather than for political borders.
    A nation is not defined solely by its government. Gwok Jing made it clear to Kublai Khan that he cared about his country and the people who lived in it, but had no loyalty for the ineffectual Sung government that ruled it.

    As for Yeung Gor, I think he cared more about his country than he was willing to admit. He didn't think of himself as a patriot, and it's true that patriotic impulses didn't consume him the way they did Gwok Jing, but Yeung Gor was always hard-pressed to let go of that sense of obligation to his people and his country...even when it conflicted with his self-interest. Inevitably, Yeung Gor always did what his country needed of him. It was probably in his blood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    A nation is not defined by its government. Gwok Jing made it clear to Kublai Khan that he cared about his country and the people who lived in it, but had no loyalty for the ineffectual Sung government that ruled it.

    As for Yeung Gor, I think he cared more about his country than he was willing to admit. He didn't think of himself as a patriot, and it's true that patriotic impulses didn't consume him the way they did Gwok Jing, but Yeung Gor was always hard-pressed to let go of that sense of obligation to his people and his country...even when it conflicted with his self-interest. Inevitably, Yeung Gor always did what his country needed of him. It was probably in his blood.
    Having been an army commander, having been ultimately responsible for the slaughter at Samarkand, and having thought through the consequences of his actions, Guo Jing protected the people in an abstract sense, his responsibilities encompassing the whole of Song, as he knew his immediate personal actions could have huge consequences. Yang Guo was always a hero, right back in the first chapter when he clung on to Li Mochou in order to allow Cheng Ying and Lu Wushuang a chance to escape. However, his sense of obligation mostly only extended to those he was personally aware of. He had a brief tutelage from Guo Jing and Huang Rong in responsibility to the people and country as an abstract entity, but it rarely consumed him in the same way as it did the Guo couple. But, within this limited field of vision, he was as great a xia as any, and his style made him a popular romantic hero, on a level with Guo Jing. While Guo Jing protected the people from foreign invaders, Yang Guo protected the people from corrupt officials and bandits. Eventually, when he found himself in a situation where he could see a task that would benefit the country as a whole, he went for it and achieved it, killing the Great Khan and driving back the Mongol armies.

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    Senior Member ChanceEncounter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    No way... Guo Jing and Huang Rong gave their lives in defense of Song. Not to mention the decades they defended Xiang Yang. GJ was ready to give up Guo Xiang's life in defense of the city.

    Yang Guo stopped caring after her reunited with XLN.
    In terms of significance, yes way.

    YG's action singlehandedly set the Mongol invasion back 13 years.

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    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChanceEncounter View Post
    In terms of significance, yes way.

    YG's action singlehandedly set the Mongol invasion back 13 years.

    Haha GJ/HR's defense of Xiang Yang probably set back the Mongol invasion 30 odd years+. Without them Xiang Yang would've long fallen with the corrupt and useless general and government.

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    Senior Member IcyFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    As for Yeung Gor, I think he cared more about his country than he was willing to admit. He didn't think of himself as a patriot, and it's true that patriotic impulses didn't consume him the way they did Gwok Jing, but Yeung Gor was always hard-pressed to let go of that sense of obligation to his people and his country...even when it conflicted with his self-interest. Inevitably, Yeung Gor always did what his country needed of him. It was probably in his blood.
    Hahaha the 1st thing that came to my mind was Yang Kang.

    So yeah, not literally, I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IcyFox View Post
    Hahaha the 1st thing that came to my mind was Yang Kang.

    So yeah, not literally, I guess.
    Yeung Hong was the exception, but before him, there had been a long line of patriotic warriors from the Yeung Family.

    And even Yeung Hong was fiercely patriotic, although his loyalty was to the Jin Empire that raised him.

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    Senior Member Linda's Avatar
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    in tat sense wouldn't tat mean YK loyalty was on par of tat with GJ. i always felt YK followed the Jin because he didn't want to live the hard life.

    i always found it ingenious of Louis Cha to put YK and GJ in the same position, each was raised by a different country not sung, but choose different path in their lives. i would put it down to upbringing. while GJ's mother was very loyal to her country, as well as his masters, they never once let GJ forget he is a Han.

    YK did not have the same influence. his mother mourned her dead husband and let her son believe himself a jin. his masters had limited affect over him and he was a brat to boot.

    YG, although grew up in Sung, had no influence wat so ever by anyone about patriotism. GJ's limited influence was marred by GF's brattiness, and the taoist did not help either. but then he did not have the help from any other country, like YK or GJ.

    GJ was breed to be patriotic he was also simple and felt all lives were equal, while YK was not properly raised and was let loose to do his own things at a young age, much like young actors nowdays, growing up to be unstable. YG was patriotic enough for someone who did not have the same experience that either GJ or YK had. he was loyal to those that treat him rite, and tat was enough for him. like dying for his country was gud enough for GJ.
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    Senior Member ChanceEncounter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    Haha GJ/HR's defense of Xiang Yang probably set back the Mongol invasion 30 odd years+. Without them Xiang Yang would've long fallen with the corrupt and useless general and government.
    GJ/HR repelled, what was it, 4 small excursions on Xiang Yang?

    Yang Guo defeated the largest force on it to date (including the Mongol Khan, Mongke).

    No one is diminishing the sacrificing and effect that GJ/HR had. But YG singlehandedly changed the complexion of the war by taking out the Khan. The Mongol Empire as whole needed 13 years to get their sh-t together.

    So in effect, GJ/HR was 40 years of being a thorn in the Mongol side. YG was 13 years of being a dagger in the Mongol heart.

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    Senior Member jadebunny9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda View Post
    was let loose to do his own things at a young age, much like young actors nowdays, growing up to be unstable.
    That made me smile a bit.



    YG may not look like the crazy patriotic type, but when the time calls for it, he's there to help out. He is not any less loyal to his people than GJ/HR.

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    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChanceEncounter View Post
    GJ/HR repelled, what was it, 4 small excursions on Xiang Yang?

    Yang Guo defeated the largest force on it to date (including the Mongol Khan, Mongke).

    No one is diminishing the sacrificing and effect that GJ/HR had. But YG singlehandedly changed the complexion of the war by taking out the Khan. The Mongol Empire as whole needed 13 years to get their sh-t together.

    So in effect, GJ/HR was 40 years of being a thorn in the Mongol side. YG was 13 years of being a dagger in the Mongol heart.

    Interesting analogy but if Xiang Yang fell earlier, YG would never have got the chance of being a dagger. Overall, GJ still contributed more than YG. YG stopped caring once he got back with XLN but GJ stayed until he died. Dedication before one-hit-wonders.

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    Senior Member ChanceEncounter's Avatar
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    And if Guo Jing's mom was killed at the beginning of LOCH, Guo Jing would never have been born to save Xiang Yang.

    No one is arguing whether or not GJ was more dedicated. He definitely was more dedicated than YG.

    What people are saying is that YG's impact was just as great as GJ's. Certainly, by killing the Khan, he has a dog in the fight.

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