Team War: Z3F+ZWJ+ZBT vs. XF+YG+GWM

[pannonian]

But thats different from actually handling different forms of qi. I reckon only geniuses like WCY and Z3F can pull it off. I think this is quite a prestigious thing lol.

I wouldn't put it beyond Yang Guo, if he turned his mind to it. Early on, he tried to force all the different martial arts he had learned into a single combined art, and fire deviated a number of times due to their incompatibility. From this, he learned the lesson Feng Qingyang taught Linghu Chong about DG9J, that using whatever was best without thought of staying within a school was as good as creating a new skill. And later, he managed to go beyond this lesson, and actually succeed in integrating the ideas from these incompatible arts into a single combined art.

I'm wondering how the qi training methods of DGQB as practiced by YG would have translated into the execution of Ancient Tomb arts.

[augster123]

I'm wondering how the qi training methods of DGQB as practiced by YG would have translated into the execution of Ancient Tomb arts.

or if YG trained his qi, while eating snake gall bladders, while sitting on the Chilly Jade Bed.

i recall in one of the older threads, there was a comparison between ZWJ's TaiChi Sword Technique vs. LHC's DG9J.

how do you think YG's Heavy Iron Sword Technique would compare to Z3F's TaiChi Sword Technique? A powerful, offensive, simple sword slash vs. tight, unyielding, infinite sword circles?

[pannonian]

or if YG trained his qi, while eating snake gall bladders, while sitting on the Chilly Jade Bed.

i recall in one of the older threads, there was a comparison between ZWJ's TaiChi Sword Technique vs. LHC's DG9J.

how do you think YG's Heavy Iron Sword Technique would compare to Z3F's TaiChi Sword Technique? A powerful, offensive, simple sword slash vs. tight, unyielding, infinite sword circles?

The heavy sword theory would involve thrusting the sword at the target, and with enough force and speed, the Taiji circle would not be able to deviate the heavy sword sufficiently to defend. This can be seen in the fight with Ci'en, whose Iron Palms weren't enough to push the sword off target, and he was thus subdued. In contrast with DG9J, which breaks the opponent's technique, the heavy sword ignores the opponent's defensive technique, with the outcome of the battle dependent on who would be better at attacking the other. There aren't any sophisticated techniques, but like art, it probably requires a thorough grounding in sophisticated swordplay in order to effectively use the simplicity.

[Extremer88]

i recall in one of the older threads, there was a comparison between ZWJ's TaiChi Sword Technique vs. LHC's DG9J.

how do you think YG's Heavy Iron Sword Technique would compare to Z3F's TaiChi Sword Technique? A powerful, offensive, simple sword slash vs. tight, unyielding, infinite sword circles?

Heavy Iron Sword Technique v Taiji Sword looks mouthwatering.

I don't think we can separate them "technically". It would probably be decided by each of the practitioner's internal energy. Case of who got the better internal energy.

[ChronoReverse]

The heavy sword theory would involve thrusting the sword at the target, and with enough force and speed, the Taiji circle would not be able to deviate the heavy sword sufficiently to defend. This can be seen in the fight with Ci'en, whose Iron Palms weren't enough to push the sword off target, and he was thus subdued.

Actually this only happened because QQR wasn't aware of how heavy the HIS was. Given a second chance in the exact same situation, the result would have been completely different.

Besides, the entire theory of taichi and wudang is using a small force to redirect a great force. In JY canon, the level of wudang's redirection is immense as demonstrated by ZCS multiple times in HSDS (taking a heavy blow and channeling it throw the arms to help YSS, redirecting two large boulders hurtling towards him upwards into the air, etc.).

[pannonian]

Actually this only happened because QQR wasn't aware of how heavy the HIS was. Given a second chance in the exact same situation, the result would have been completely different.

Besides, the entire theory of taichi and wudang is using a small force to redirect a great force. In JY canon, the level of wudang's redirection is immense as demonstrated by ZCS multiple times in HSDS (taking a heavy blow and channeling it throw the arms to help YSS, redirecting two large boulders hurtling towards him upwards into the air, etc.).

Nonetheless, the heavy sword theory holds that it should still break through if used with enough force. A particularly remarkable demonstration of the heavy sword's power is when Xiaoxiang Zi attacks Yang Guo, and Yang Guo just stands unmoving with the sword meeting the melancholic rod. He breaks the rod by channelling qi through the sword, without even swinging it (so it seems to read).

[flamer]

Nonetheless, the heavy sword theory holds that it should still break through if used with enough force. A particularly remarkable demonstration of the heavy sword's power is when Xiaoxiang Zi attacks Yang Guo, and Yang Guo just stands unmoving with the sword meeting the melancholic rod. He breaks the rod by channelling qi through the sword, without even swinging it (so it seems to read).

Benefit of the weapon you would agree. Not something YG could do without it at that point in time.

[ChronoReverse]

Nonetheless, the heavy sword theory holds that it should still break through if used with enough force. A particularly remarkable demonstration of the heavy sword's power is when Xiaoxiang Zi attacks Yang Guo, and Yang Guo just stands unmoving with the sword meeting the melancholic rod. He breaks the rod by channelling qi through the sword, without even swinging it (so it seems to read).

But it doesn't. Sure if you have a massive enough power edge then it works out but how can you guarantee you have 100x the power of your opponent all the time? The point of martial arts like Taichi and Dog-Beating Stick is that if your opponent is using a thousand jins, you only need a single jin to manipulate and then control them (see young YG versus Daebra [who at this point had a huge edge in power even accounting for internal energy as well as a far heavier weapon]). The massive weight of the HIS only works against you in this situation.


This is why I concluded (in another thread) that HIS is more than simply smashing towards the opponent. Although it's true that it has no variations and only limited strokes in the name of simplicity (actually it's a physical condition of the HIS itself that it can only have the 9 basic sword strokes), the timing of the attacks becomes extremely important to ENSURE that your opponent must meet your attack HEADON.


When your opponent has to meet the attack headon, then the philosophy of the HIS holds true in that simplicity smashes through. This is why YG actually does have some swordsmanship and quite a high level understanding too. Ironically, when he attempted to reach the Wooden Sword Stage, because there were no instructions for him from Dugu, he actually went backwards a step (clashing swords deliberately with GWM).

[pannonian]

But it doesn't. Sure if you have a massive enough power edge then it works out but how can you guarantee you have 100x the power of your opponent all the time? The point of martial arts like Taichi and Dog-Beating Stick is that if your opponent is using a thousand jins, you only need a single jin to manipulate and then control them (see young YG versus Daebra [who at this point had a huge edge in power even accounting for internal energy as well as a far heavier weapon]). The massive weight of the HIS only works against you in this situation.


This is why I concluded (in another thread) that HIS is more than simply smashing towards the opponent. Although it's true that it has no variations and only limited strokes in the name of simplicity (actually it's a physical condition of the HIS itself that it can only have the 9 basic sword strokes), the timing of the attacks becomes extremely important to ENSURE that your opponent must meet your attack HEADON.


When your opponent has to meet the attack headon, then the philosophy of the HIS holds true in that simplicity smashes through. This is why YG actually does have some swordsmanship and quite a high level understanding too. Ironically, when he attempted to reach the Wooden Sword Stage, because there were no instructions for him from Dugu, he actually went backwards a step (clashing swords deliberately with GWM).

That's what I mean by needing the grounding in sophisticated sword techniques in order to effectively use the simplicity of the heavy sword theory. Understand what swordplay and general martial arts involves before one can effectively force the opponent into a situation where the heavy sword's heaviness will prevail.

[ChronoReverse]

Sure, but the assertion that with enough force it'll break through is thus incorrect in the case of QQR since that particular situation would've resulted in QQR's advantage had QQR known how heavy the HIS was. This is because any further deflection of the HIS would've allowed QRR to get in close and put YG at a disadvantage since there'd be no more room to maneuver the HIS.

Fortunately for YG, the HIS only deflected slightly and he got the advantage instead. With that said, it could be "just as planned" by YG since he knew that QQR didn't know about the properties of the HIS XD

[augster123]

Heavy Iron Sword Technique v Taiji Sword looks mouthwatering.

I don't think we can separate them "technically". It would probably be decided by each of the practitioner's internal energy. Case of who got the better internal energy.

hmmmm...if YG had his Heavy Iron Sword and Z3F had his "Real Martial" Sword and similar internal energy level...
i think sword technique wise, TaiChi Sword Technique is one of the best counter ("blackstar") sword techniques there is to Heavy Iron Sword Technique because of the reasons mentioned by ChronoReverse already...

[Western Eccentric]

The Yang's side would win IMHO depends on scenario how the fight would going on..
XF vs Wuji best fighter against lousy fighter XF win
YG vs Z3F though in general YG ~ Wuji ~ Z3F but YG is a better fighter than Wuji and he is the only guy among Condor Greats which could beat another Greats so YG win
Jinlun vs ZBT draw